Joule Thief 101

[MileHigh]

Brad:

Well, it's another irony because I haven't opened a book about electronics in more than 30 years and you have been experimenting for 6+ years and you seemingly still haven't grasped the concept of when a capacitance is significant and when it's not significant when you want to figure out how a given circuit works.  What's worse, is that you are willfully ignoring my advice about that.

Your whole line about experiments vs. books with respect to me is phony, it's a crutch that you use to stick to your own unique way of thinking, and sometimes that thinking is completely off the wall.  "Books plus bench" is the way you should be thinking.

I am working with the team by challenging you guys to think instead of just blindly "pushing forward."  Look at the example of the variable base resistor for the Joule Thief.  I challenged you and asked you why it was supposedly needed and you had nothing to say.  I could cover that issue on paper from A to Z.  Likewise, I could go on a bench to investigate the issue from A to Z and state definitively and comprehensively about the requirement, or lack of a requirement, for a variable base resistor for the Joule Thief under test.

Here is another way I am helping the team:  I am asking them to state what a "resonant Joule Thief" is and how it is supposed to operate.  So that's why the wine glass is interesting.  It makes everybody think.  For six or more years people have been talking about resonance, and when the subject of one of the most common and basic resonant devices is brought up there are unanswered questions and blank stares.

I have a lot of direct experience, and an education.  I remember most of my direct experience.  Don't pretend that I don't have any direct experience as a way to try to dismiss what I am saying to you.

MileHigh

[tinman]

 author=MileHigh link=topic=8341.msg476359#msg476359 date=1457098312]

MileHigh

Well, it's another irony because I haven't opened a book about electronics in more than 30 years and you have been experimenting for 6+ years and you seemingly still haven't grasped the concept of when a capacitance is significant and when it's not significant when you want to figure out how a given circuit works.  What's worse, is that you are willfully ignoring my advice about that.

Im not ignoring you MH, im just saying your wrong.
What about parasitic capacitance which resonates with the inductance ? . I know the value maybe small,but at high frequencies at these low power levels,it plays a big part in how the circuit will operate. A series LR circuit without capacitance, is only an idealization. In the real world,the fact is that as you increase the applied frequency you reach a point where there is a small capacitance between the individual windings of the inductor whose reactance becomes significant at these low power levels. Now it is no longer an RL circuit and we can get resonance.

Your whole line about experiments vs. books with respect to me is phony, it's a crutch that you use to stick to your own unique way of thinking, and sometimes that thinking is completely off the wall.  "Books plus bench" is the way you should be thinking.

MH,i dont read books as such,as all my research is via the internet--same thing i guess.
But if we restrick our self to what is yesterdays new's,then we will never get any further ahead than we are now. The only way forward is in the new discoveries--and those you will not find in the books of yesty year.

I am working with the team by challenging you guys to think instead of just blindly "pushing forward."

But your not working with us MH,you are against anything that includes an increase in efficiency due to resonance. You say !blindly! pushing forward,and we say experimentation.

Look at the example of the variable base resistor for the Joule Thief.  I challenged you and asked you why it was supposedly needed and you had nothing to say.

I dont use resistors if i can help it MH,as they just burn of power as waste heat. I try and design the system to operate without them,and keep resistive losses at a minimum.

I could cover that issue on paper from A to Z.  Likewise, I could go on a bench to investigate the issue from A to Z and state definitively and comprehensively about the requirement, or lack of a requirement, for a variable base resistor for the Joule Thief under test.

And i would work on the bench designing a circuit that has the least amount of resistance as possible.

Here is another way I am helping the team:  I am asking them to state what a "resonant Joule Thief" is and how it is supposed to operate.  So that's why the wine glass is interesting.  It makes everybody think.  For six or more years people have been talking about resonance, and when the subject of one of the most common and basic resonant devices is brought up there are unanswered questions and blank stares.

So what questions in regard to the wine glass did i have wrong?
I told you the easy way to find the resonant frequency of a wine glass,using a microphone and scope.
I told you how to get a wine glass to resonate.
And i told you what resonance is.

I have a lot of direct experience, and an education.  I remember most of my direct experience.  Don't pretend that I don't have any direct experience as a way to try to dismiss what I am saying to you.

MH,i know you have the smarts,but i have some myself you know.
I cant dismiss anything you have said toward the resonant questions MH,as you say you need 4 to 8 weeks to present them,when the rest of us here are expected to answer your questions straight away.


Brad

[MileHigh]

Brad:

Evey time I have stated that the capacitance in a given circuit is insignificant and should be ignored you have fought back with willful ignorance.

But if we restrick our self to what is yesterdays new's,then we will never get any further ahead than we are now. The only way forward is in the new discoveries--and those you will not find in the books of yesty year.

You haven't even made it half way through Electronics 101.

you are against anything that includes an increase in efficiency due to resonance

Who says "better efficiency through resonance?"  Do you have any proof of that?  From what I can see you don't, it's just one of the blind beliefs on the forums.  You believe it because others have told you so, and you repeat it yourself.  It is pure self-propagandizing and blind obedience.  It's a bloody Orwellian nightmare and you are just a resonance zombie pod person.

Resonant circuits, actual resonant circuits, not "force a square peg into a round hole" to find the "resonant" version of a circuit - these true resonant circuits have to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

In addition, I have posted several times how a resonant circuit can be just a lot of oscillating current going nowhere, and burning off a lot of power due to excessive i-squared-R losses.  That translates into reduced efficiency.

I dont use resistors if i can help it MH,as they just burn of power as waste heat. I try and design the system to operate without them,and keep resistive losses at a minimum.

That comment is laughable nonsense and you completely avoided the issue of the variable resistor for a Joule Thief because you clearly cannot do the simple basic circuit analysis that that calls for.

And i would work on the bench designing a circuit that has the least amount of resistance as possible.

ROTFLMAO

I told you the easy way to find the resonant frequency of a wine glass,using a microphone and scope.

Are you a clown now?

I cant dismiss anything you have said toward the resonant questions MH,as you say you need 4 to 8 weeks to present them,when the rest of us here are expected to answer your questions straight away.

You have four to eight weeks to roll up your shirtsleeves and get to work and apply yourself so you can get to the point where you can actually answer those two simple questions about a resonating wine glass.  Do it to prove to yourself and to others that you did it - you worked and got up the learning curve and applied your new knowledge now you actually understand resonance and resonance in a wine glass and you did it by yourself.

MileHigh

[Magluvin]

Brad:

Evey time I have stated that the capacitance in a given circuit is insignificant and should be ignored you have fought back with willful ignorance.

Well that depends on the freq of operation of the circuit. If the book on power supplies tells us to operate our inductors or transformers at freq in a range of 10 times below or lower the natural RESONANT freq(determined by the inductor/transformer internal capacitance and inductance) of the inductor/transformer, and not even a lower multiple of that freq, then apparently if we did operate at, or a multiple of that resonant freq, then that capacitance is not insignificant any longer.

Mags

[tinman]

Well that depends on the freq of operation of the circuit. If the book on power supplies tells us to operate our inductors or transformers at freq in a range of 10 times below or lower the natural RESONANT freq(determined by the inductor/transformer internal capacitance and inductance) of the inductor/transformer, and not even a lower multiple of that freq, then apparently if we did operate at, or a multiple of that resonant freq, then that capacitance is not insignificant any longer.

Mags

Im beginning to wonder if this is actually MH speaking,or his 7 year old grandson has hacked his account .


Brad