Joule Thief 101

[tinman]

These are very good questions, I am glad you brought this up.
My answer is going to be exactly the same as I have been saying to you all along.

the wine glass is very similar to the ferrite core. and as I will note,
the "input" frequency - i.e. your finger rubbing the edge of the glass
does not play a very important factor in the resonance of the wine glass.
You can test this by varying many factors of the wine glass set-up,
while the vibration frequency of your finger (caused by friction) remains relatively constant.

the resonant frequency is determined, primarily, by a materials constant of the glass, the physical dimensions of the wine glass,
as well as the materials property (as a factor of density) of the  medium inside the glass. (water, oil, etc)

in a ferrite core, the "medium" outside the core dimensions, is that of the permeability of air.
When all factors are accounted for, you will see that these two examples are rather synonymous.

Now - what happens to the resonance of the glass, when your finger-vibrations are sporadic?
or are caused to be interfering with the frequency of the wine glass?

the glass does not resonate as intensely, does it?
This is the same as switching a JT , in an incoherently digital manner.

I know you "get it"... you cannot "not get it" at this point in the discussion.....

Why, then, do you insist on propagating this "apparently" ignorant viewpoint?
Is it just for the fun of conflict? Do you want to deter this line of thinking for some other goal?
or is it that you are truly that indoctrinated, that you cannot allow yourself to see what is right in front of you?

smOky
Your wasting your time.
I tried to explain to MH all of the above,but he just continue's on his rant.
We are all wrong,even though MH has no answers him self--that will take him 4 to 8 weeks to gather together.

the resonant frequency is determined, primarily, by a materials constant of the glass, the physical dimensions of the wine glass,
as well as the materials property

The very same answer i gave--but wrong apparently

Why, then, do you insist on propagating this "apparently" ignorant viewpoint?
Is it just for the fun of conflict? Do you want to deter this line of thinking for some other goal?
or is it that you are truly that indoctrinated, that you cannot allow yourself to see what is right in front of you?

Proof of that at some OUR post,regarding the TPU.

Just forget about it smOKy,and carry on with what you believe in.


Brad

[tinman]

Reference post.

How to determine !what! the resonant frequency of a wine glass is.
1 Answer--  If you have a microphone and an oscilloscope, you can tap the glass and measure the frequency of the ring. Tried it today,and works a treat.

How to get a wine glass to resonate
1 answer--Resonance occurs when an oscillating system(the prime mover or outside force) is driven at a frequency which is the same as the wine glasses own natural frequency.

What is resonance
Answer when a vibrating system or external force drives another system to oscillate with greater amplitude at a specific preferential frequency. In the case of the wine glass experiment,the outside oscillating force is sound waves. When the frequency of the external force matches the natural frequency of the wine glass,the wine glass will resonate,and the amplitude will rise due to energy being stored in the wine glass. Once the stored energy(or amplitude) exceeds that of what the wine glass can store,the glass will shatter---the system breaks down.


Brad

[wattsup]

Wine glass shmine glass. Forget the glass business already.

Resonance is great if you know what it is and what it is trying to tell you. Otherwise you are just spinning your wheels for nothing.

The battery in the above JT circuit is an analog to a capacitor if it can output and receive input it's doing the same thing as a cap would.

Before you can explain resonance you need to fully understand how amp ratings are produced for different wire AWG. They only give you amps but there is never any mention of volts so your wires are half identified which makes the amp tables more bugus then anything else. Totally useless in fact. So you guys find out how Standard EE derives amp ratings for copper wire and if you can do that and post it here and I will come back and explain to you what resonance is and what it means in your furthering of OU experiments.

Resonance, the way we use it today will never lead to OU. It's always the same humdrum, high volts no amps and it will go nowhere if the amps cannot be increased while there is high volts. But to do that you need to know the above.

Lastly, guys doing JT experiments should maybe look at my Half Coil Syndrome youtubes and then add a small slave coil or slave transformer primary in series on the B+ side since you are pulsing the B- side. Just look up wattsup1004 on youtube.

wattsup

[MileHigh]

Smoky2:

So how about that, you can't answer the two questions either.  Your ferrite core discussion is bogus and doesn't answer either question.

Why, then, do you insist on propagating this "apparently" ignorant viewpoint?
Is it just for the fun of conflict? Do you want to deter this line of thinking for some other goal?
or is it that you are truly that indoctrinated, that you cannot allow yourself to see what is right in front of you?

My viewpoint is informed.  There is no fun in it but there is good sound principle - if you want to talk about something and share it with your peers, then you should actually know what you are talking about.  The old "indoctrinated" line again, messages from the guru.  How come you can't see what is right in front of you and I can?

Brad:

MH has no answers him self--that will take him 4 to 8 weeks to gather together.

You stop this ridiculous immature nonsense right now and take what I am saying to you at face value.

Just forget about it smOKy,and carry on with what you believe in.

That is a very telling line, and says a lot about you.  You don't actually have to know what you are talking about, you just have to believe that you know what you are talking about.  And that is the problem right there, because you share a lot of disinformation and outright mistakes with your peers and present the material as if you are right.  Case in point is your "resonant Joule thief" that was no such thing of the sort.  That is wrong and that is counterproductive for the people reading you that believe you know what you are doing and can't separate out the right stuff from the wrong stuff.

How to determine !what! the resonant frequency of a wine glass is.
1 Answer--  If you have a microphone and an oscilloscope, you can tap the glass and measure the frequency of the ring. Tried it today,and works a treat.

You are acting like a clown and answering a question that wasn't even asked.   You are answering the question, "How is the resonant frequency of a wine glass measured?" when the real question is, "How is the resonant frequency of a wine glass determined?"  You are just forcing a square peg into a round hole to satisfy yourself but you aren't fooling anybody including yourself.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

I am making this posting to put things in their proper context.

Presumably Magluvin is trying to make a "resonant Joule Thief" when he has time.  He is working with Smoky2 on this.  I have stated in the past that I wish both of them luck on the project, I won't get involved, and I look forward to seeing the results if they come.  Nonetheless, I am not holding my breath.

The related generic discussion of resonance is important and relates directly to the "resonant Joule Thief."  And as it turns out some of the key players here can't answer a few simple questions about a resonating wine glass to show that they truly understand resonance.  That's in contrast to their portrayal of themselves as being researchers into resonance.  If you are going to research something, then you better know what it is first and demonstrate competency.  It's upsetting to some people because reality is coming crashing down.

There is no point in a lot of tech talk if some of it is not making sense and to make matters worse sometimes nobody says anything about the stuff that doesn't make sense.  On the positive side look at the case of ADGEX ELFE flashlight.  Their excuse for it not working is that a bad glue mixture is preventing it from recharging.  Thankfully, most people are waking up and realizing that the excuse is ridiculous and makes no sense.  We should do the same kind of thing on this thread and get it right and not BS ourselves.  Even though it is upsetting people like Brad, I am bringing value to the table.  I am not some "bad guy," that is a just false label that people are heaping on me out of frustration.  The reality is that some of the boys don't know what resonance truly is because they can't explain how it works for a wine glass in simple terms.  Hopefully in the long run they will learn.  Self-deception and meaningless tech word salads are NOT the answer, true knowledge is the answer.