Joule Thief 101

[MileHigh]

   Well MileHigh,you have had a good dose of the Tinman!
             John.

Indeed I have!  lol  You know how in many cities they have their annual "Zombie Walk?"

"The Night of the Living Joule Thief Zombies" - featuring the infallible Dr. Brainfry.  Coming to a theater near you.  Just remember it's all fantasy.

I will close the loop on the wine glass later and then stay tuned for "The Birth of the Resonant Joule Thief" - featuring the prophet Resotrance Man.  In spectacular 4D.

MileHigh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf0wxx6Eec0

[tinman]

Indeed I have!  lol  You know how in many cities they have their annual "Zombie Walk?"

"The Night of the Living Joule Thief Zombies" - featuring the infallible Dr. Brainfry.  Coming to a theater near you.  Just remember it's all fantasy.

I will close the loop on the wine glass later and then stay tuned for "The Birth of the Resonant Joule Thief" - featuring the prophet Resotrance Man.  In spectacular 4D.

MileHigh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf0wxx6Eec0

I think that a zombie would be a more accurate description of your self MH.
I mean a zombie is just something that is dead-dose not do much-and moans all the time,but still is a pain in the ass to the living
Perhaps this is where you got your !!death spike!! from lol.
Oh ,by the way--about your !!death spike!!-->some one forgot to tell Lasersaber about it-->daaang
I mean,he drives 110volt CFL's,LED's, incandescent bulb's,halogen bulb's--all sorts of loads from the base emitter reverse !!death spike!!,and it's one of the most versatile and efficient circuits around lol
Death spike- LMAO.

[wattsup]

@MH

Just leave it alone. Let me just say that all you have explained thus far I could counter and this thread could again go on by you answering a series of questions on function and soon you will realize that the "current flow (CF)" construct is BS. It just looks like CF from your present vantage point and from the limited way our scopes can portray the effect, but man oh man, you guys are just off the mark on real logic function but I have to say, perfectly fluent in the standard model of unproven effect.

@all

That's exactly why everyone is still in the race but only stuck at the starting line, all the toes right on the edge ready to sprint, but no one can hear the starter pistol because the standard EE just loves making so much noise and so much wrangling. hahaha 

This little JT circuit is the perfect device, small, simple and easy to manipulate to learn tons more then anything so far but guys just get side tracked (had other posts but never got the chance) with so much undue commotion that for me just makes it impossible to post anything additional.

@tinman

OK, now that the storm has passed, maybe try this. I will not go into any great details.

Notice I added a coil (1) and a switch (2) to the diagram just to give some of you a new way of testing this thingy. Now the coil (1) could be an air core but will require more wire, it could be a rod core coil with less wire or it could even be a small toroid transformer with descent primary wire and as much secondary wire as you want that can light another LED or return the juice back to the battery sides. I will not say any more for now.

Maybe one last thing. @tinman I know you always use your scope with the ground reference but it may be a good idea for you that when you do that, also do it with only the probe lead on each side to see the differences in waveforms. Taking differential readings is not always the way to go. This can also create other potential loops that you do not know to what degree it is affecting the function of these very small devices.

Let's say you scope each side of a coil with your probe lead. We know that at each point if taken with only the probe, let's say you see this elaborate waveform and they are identical on each side of the coil. What does that tell you? Now with the ground and probe on that same coil, what will you see? If both sides are identical then you should see a flat line because the "differential" between these two points will be zero since they are identical even though they are actual real waveforms. But usually when we see a flat line, we think there is no activity, or you see another waveform which is the "remainder" waveform once both have been cancelled out. But don't you really want to know what is happening only at the start or end of the coil. I mean that's the main impetus to all this which is the change it undergoes from one end to the other.

Pointal scoping will tell you exactly what is going on in the coil and differential scoping will then tell you what it amounts to. But without the pointal telling you this side is hitting 500 volts while the other side is hitting 200 volts for you to then get your differential waveform. You need to know everything, not just one factor. But you guys only use the later, always satisfied with half the story. Puzzling indeed. The actual values shown of the pointal probing is NOT IMPORTANT. It is how the waveform is produced, up, down, squiggly, ragged, sloping all of these tell you what is going on inside the coil to produce those waveforms. They do not happen by accident.

wattsup

[MileHigh]

I think that a zombie would be a more accurate description of your self MH.
I mean a zombie is just something that is dead-dose not do much-and moans all the time,but still is a pain in the ass to the living
Perhaps this is where you got your !!death spike!! from lol.
Oh ,by the way--about your !!death spike!!-->some one forgot to tell Lasersaber about it-->daaang
I mean,he drives 110volt CFL's,LED's, incandescent bulb's,halogen bulb's--all sorts of loads from the base emitter reverse !!death spike!!,and it's one of the most versatile and efficient circuits around lol
Death spike- LMAO.

I am no zombie I can assure you because I don't sleepwalk when there is an issue that needs attention like you do.  You are losing energy every time the Joule Thief has a death spike.  If you have another identical core, you could build the same Joule Thief but this time pay attention to the number of turns in L1 and L2, and make sure the transistor switches fully on without wasting excess base current.  That Joule Thief would blow your existing crippled Joule Thief out of the water.  But I seriously doubt that you have the courage to challenge yourself and make abetter circuit and prove that your original circuit was no good.  Two opposing stimuli and something might snap.

Wattsup, the truth is that you live in your own unique electronics dream world, and I would be surprised if anything truly interesting comes of it.  No need to play the bouncer either, Brad is no angel as was clearly evidenced in this thread.  He decided to run away to pursue electronics on his own terms.  So it's back to both of you practicing your own extra unique special custom versions of electronics.

MileHigh

[tinman]

I am no zombie I can assure you because I don't sleepwalk when there is an issue that needs attention like you do.

Wattsup, the truth is that you live in your own unique electronics dream world, and I would be surprised if anything truly interesting comes of it.  No need to play the bouncer either, Brad is no angel as was clearly evidenced in this thread.  He decided to run away to pursue electronics on his own terms.  So it's back to both of you practicing your own extra unique special custom versions of electronics.

MileHigh

You are losing energy every time the Joule Thief has a death spike.  If you have another identical core, you could build the same Joule Thief but this time pay attention to the number of turns in L1 and L2, and make sure the transistor switches fully on without wasting excess base current.  That Joule Thief would blow your existing crippled Joule Thief out of the water.  But I seriously doubt that you have the courage to challenge yourself and make abetter circuit and prove that your original circuit was no good.  Two opposing stimuli and something might snap.

MH
Some of what you say is true--if we build your standard JT,where it has a fixed base resistor value.
But with a higher turn ratio on L2 to that of L1,and a variable base resistance,then the (your) JT circuit is just as efficient,as i have already done what you say above.

The whole point was to be able to maintain maximum light output,as the battery voltage drop's,and the !death spike! version dose that very well. The other advantage is that by lowering the base resistance,the circuit will run normally at a much lower voltage that your standard fixed resistor circuit. In fact,your standard JT circuit is quite inefficient in it self,and the second version where the LED is across the L1 coil only,is far more efficient,as it excludes the battery in the current loop during the off time of the transistor.

The second circuit below will drain more of the remaining energy from the battery--can you work out why?. Can you see how in the original circuit(your fav circuit)that the battery is being drained even during the Off time of the transistor,while the second circuit only draws power from the battery during the on time.

Brad