Joule Thief 101

[Pirate88179]

Bill:

The Budgie from Hell will haunt your dreams for the rest of your life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH7XSX10QkM

Damn!  He really needed to be wearing safety glasses!  He was very lucky.

My ex-wife could break them (and mirrors also) by just looking at them.

Bill

[tinman]

 author=poynt99 link=topic=8341.msg480852#msg480852 date=1460764554]

An increase in impedance would certainly cause a drop of input current and possibly an increase in output

.

Yes it would.
This is why i asked the question as to what can change the value of impedance--other than those i have eliminated so far,which as far as im aware,are what is needed to change in order for the value
of impedance to change.

What other introduced element can cause the circuit to appear as though the impedance has increased (i.e. a decrease in current)? How about an opposing voltage, i.e. cemf?

Exactly
Now,if we had a CEMF being produced across the primary coil,which would result in a decrease in current being delivered to the primary coil,what would be the resultant outcome of the secondary coil?.

Nothing was changed in terms of the transformer impedance, but the input current is clearly going to be lower in the case when cemf is introduced.

I couldnt agree more.

Is this happening here and in the rotor example (pretty much the same in concept)? Is the moving magnet also causing a higher output? I don't know for certain, I'm just speculating at the moment in an attempt to explain the reduced input current without changing the impedance.

I agree with your explanation in the reduced P/in to the primary coil.
I would like to confirm the CEMF baing the cause of the reduction of P/in to the primary coil,and then we can move onto the rest of the effect.



Brad

[Magluvin]

Ive been thinking about this also.  The magnet on the pendulum driven with a coil could be similar to say a dc motor input, as when it is free wheeling, is the least due to the motor itself coming close to generating an equal opposition to the input. 

Mags

[tinman]

Yes, increased in-phase CEMF is what I asked him to check for by rigging up a photocell to measure the phase of the vibrating post relative to the function generator EMF.  He could then simply move  the post in and out on the bare coil and determine the corresponding EMF polarity from the magnet.  The two EMFs together may explain the increased power in the load resistor but you have to know the phase.  You just have to do the work to find out what is going on.

Lol
You really do crack me up some times MH lol.

Quote post 1971:

If you could only understand the concept of an impedance change in the system then you would not be marveling at the "energy from magnets."

Post 2033 from Poynt.
What other introduced element can cause the circuit to appear as though the impedance has increased (i.e. a decrease in current)? How about an opposing voltage, i.e. cemf?
The input current is determined by the potential difference across the primary impedance, with the assumption that the opposite end of the primary is at gnd potential (see "normal case"). In this case Vpri is Vfg=3V. Now what happens if another FG is connected to the bottom of the primary? See "cemf case". Now Vpri is Vfg1-Vfg2=2V.
Nothing was changed in terms of the transformer impedance, but the input current is clearly going to be lower in the case when cemf is introduced.

Then your next post MH :Yes, increased in-phase CEMF is what I asked him to check for

Lol-MH-Its the change in impedance
Poynt-Nothing was changed in terms of the transformer impedance. but the input current is clearly going to be lower in the case when cemf is introduced
Mh-- Yes yes-an increase in phase CEMF .

Lol-like i said before MH,you ride on the back of others to make your self look great--but you will always come unstuck.


Brad

[tinman]

Ive been thinking about this also.  The magnet on the pendulum driven with a coil could be similar to say a dc motor input, as when it is free wheeling, is the least due to the motor itself coming close to generating an equal opposition to the input. 

Mags

Yes Mag's
But what happens when you draw more energy from that motor?--you load the output ?
What happens to the P/in in the oscillating system when a greater load is being dissipated on the output?.
Lets not forget about the PMs pole orientation,where one pole is always facing the transformer,and where that transformers magnetic polarity is alternating--unlike that of a DC motor in relation to the stator magnets.

Maybe the now increase current flow through the secondary is what is inducing a CEMF in the primary,and not the oscillating magnet directly. Look at the scope shot below from the video taken while the oscillating system was in play,and take note of the polarity the scope is showing in the video without the oscillating system in play. As poynt mentioned before regarding the attached scope shot with the schematic regarding my question to minnie,CH2 is inverted,and was inverted to separate the two wave forms to make the scope shot clear . This means that when the oscillating system is in play,the primaries current and secondaries EMF are in phase ,which means the secondaries current is also in phase with the primaries current

Unlike MHs copy cat responce that the CEMF is being produced by the magnet,if he took any kind of notice to the orientation of the PMs field to that of the alternating magnetic field of the primary coil,then he would have worked out that it could not be the PM directly interacting with the primary coil that causes the CEMF in the primary coil.
Guess what happens if the load is removed from the secondary coil? 


Brad