Joule Thief 101

[tinman]

 author=MileHigh link=topic=8341.msg488258#msg488258 date=1468246723]

Well, this is turning out to be a big showcase for your powers of reasoning.  Let's have a look.

Lord knows indeed, he certainly works in mysterious ways with you.  I post a simple example to look at how two different load types with different duty cycles will affect the losses in a seven ohm internal resistance for the power source, and you talk about something totally different and unrelated in your response.  It's like you are on the Bizzaro World debating team, and you are in higher esteem the more illogical and/or non-responsive your debating points are.

I just put an end to you trying to be deceitful again.
My question was clearly stated,and we will not have you change it all around to suit your need to be correct. If you had of answered my question as asked,you would have worked out why circuit 2 is more efficient,which would mean that you were wrong--and we cant have that now,can we

But I was talking about a battery as the source and this test is being done with a capacitor so you can't draw any conclusions.  In addition, it makes no sense whatsoever to mention "circuit 2 slightly lower,which would indicate a slightly deeper drain of the battery" because the difference between the two final recorded capacitor voltages is insignificant.  Anybody that understands science would ignore the voltage difference in this case.  The debate attendees from Bizarro World are giving you a round of applause.

It would seem that you also need a few lessons in deep battery discharging as well.
I have clearly explained the difference in using caps to batteries to TK,and im sure he already knew that anyway. But the outcome will be the same in the end,and circuit 2 will discharge the battery,and use more of it's remaining energy to that of circuit 1.

But TK said this. "I'll be using a Nesscap 10F 2.7V rated capacitor with 30mOhm (0.030 ohm) equivalent series resistance."  Therefore the equivalent series resistance of the capacitor can be considered negligible and can be ignored.  The debate attendees from Bizarro World are giving you a another round of applause.

Well MH,it would once again seem you took a hop,skip,and face plant
Im guessing you !once again! did not read what i wrote to TK,regarding simulating the increasing internal resistance of a battery as the voltage drop's,when using a cap as the power supply.

Here is where you get a thunderous round of applause from your Bizarro fans for all of your "bench smarts."
You get a smattering of applause from the Bizarro Word fans.  It's not really correct to say that the internal resistance of the battery increases as the "voltage drops."  You don't necessarily see a voltage drop on a high-internal-resistance battery with a voltmeter, do you?  The internal resistance of the battery increases as the state of charge of the battery decreases.  Six years on the bench and your t-shirt looks great.

OMG MH--are you serious 
The internal resistance of the battery increases as the state of charge of the battery decreases.
So MH--Mr bench guru,when the battery is driving a load,and the state of charge decreases,causing the internal resistance of the battery to increase,what will happen to the voltage across the battery 
You don't necessarily see a voltage drop on a high-internal-resistance battery with a voltmeter, do you?
Well im not sure what planet you came from,but here on earth-yes you do see a voltage drop as the internal resistance increases.
Feel free to show us how you can measure the internal resistance of a battery,without seeing a voltage drop across that battery,as you carry out your test --this should be good
MH,you seem to be struggling lately,and your skill set seems to have plummeted to an all time low.
Perhaps you could tell everyone reading this thread,as to how the voltage across a battery driving a load will not decrease as that battery discharges,and the internal resistance of that battery go's up as the state of charge go's down .

Now you've got your Bizarro World fans really excited and they are waving their frying pans

.

What we have got,and have just seen once again MH,is you grasping for air,and coming up with some of the wackiest post we have ever seen here on this forum.

It has become very clear MH,that you are only here to derail the thread once again,and your whakadoo comments above proved just that.

MH
What ever happy pills the doctor has given you,i would stop taking.
Go back to the doctor,and tell him that they are not good for you. In fact,i would change doctors if i were you


Brad

[tinman]

MH
Quote
Lets showcase your reasoning /Snip/ from bizzaro world"
end quote

I could not agree more ...you have an opportunity to get "infront" of the investigation and lead by example
and yet you chose to "lead from behind"

I have to say ,yes it is always much safer to lead from the back ....

But Quite Bizarre indeed.. if one truly expects to be taken seriously!

Our world is filled with "Monday morning quarterbacks"!

Not just one mans opinion ....

Chet K

Chet

Lets stop fooling our selves here. MH is never going to take on my challenge--not even with the help of one of the brightest minds on this forum(itsu).

Looking at his last post,i think he has lost a couple of cows in the top paddock :
It has become very clear that his mighty pen would have been no match for the bench experimenter .
The good news is that the hybrid toroid transformer has double+ the efficiency than any other JT transformer i have tried so far--and that includes some very well wound ferrite toroid cores of many shapes and sizes.

What i would like to do,is put it up against the best TK has,and see how it go's.
First i need to get my light box to the same specks as TK's,so as we are working with an even playing field.

So lets just forget about the MH challenge,as i think(still think) that the hybrid toroid coil has a lot to offer.


Brad

[MileHigh]

Brad:

In regards to a capacitor,how dose the value of internal resistance change as the voltage drops?

It's almost hopeless with you, isn't it?  You have been on the bench playing with capacitors for six years.  You have read all about capacitors and have seen them being discussed on the forums countless times.  You have seen diagrams of how they are constructed and how they work.

Yet apparently you don't have any innate sense whatsoever of what is going on inside a capacitor, and you make the most idiotic and ridiculous comment.  It almost makes it look like in your mind the true workings of a capacitor remain a mysterious, enigmatic, and amorphous grey blob.  For you a capacitor may as well be a grey blob.  In all sincerity, how else could you pose such a ridiculous question?

Perhaps a VR on the base would allow us to raise the light output for circuit 2,to match that of circuit 1.

And we talked about the Joule Thief and the base resistor in a Joule Thief over and over.  And your comment reveals, to no surprise, that you still apparently don't have the slightest idea about how a Joule Thief actually functions.  Sometimes speculations or questions posed by individuals inadvertently reveal how limited their understanding of something really is.

Your Bizarro World fans are ecstatically clanking their frying pans together in a cacophony of frying pan high fives, they are so excited.

MileHigh

[TinselKoala]

Brad, my lightbox was built when I was doing some efficiency tests for another project, to compare with results from some other researchers. This is why I used the 18 inch distance from LED to sensor. The box is 5 inches square by 18 inches long (inside dimensions) and is painted inside with gloss white paint. The Extech LT300 lightmeter sensor dome is in the center of the back end wall. The front end wall is removable for access, and has a small breadboard attached to its inner surface for mounting LEDs etc.  This puts the LED about 1/2 inch from the actual surface of the front wall. The actual distance from the LED under test and the sensor inside the dome is 18 inches, as the sensor itself is recessed a bit in its housing.

I'm using one LumiLED Luxeon 3535L surface-mount LED (part number MXA7-PW57-H001) in the center of the front wall breadboard, soldered to some pins to fit the breadboard. These LEDs have a nice wide dispersion angle and no focussing lens. They are superefficent, but are generally meant to be supplied with 100 or 200  mA  DC max (depending on exact part number). At that drive current they are blindingly brilliant (but need a heatsink), but even at 20 mA drive they are amazingly bright. I've attached the full data sheet for these LEDs below. They are great, you should order some!


Has nobody drawn graphs from my raw data yet?   

[MileHigh]

Brad:

Yes,we could run the test this way-using super caps. But as i stated in my last post,the cap will not include the impedance/internal resistance rise that you would get with a battery.

To carry out the test correctly using a cap in place of the battery,you would have to include a series variable  resister,and increase the resistance value to mimic that of the internal resistance value of the battery as the voltage drops. You would have to get some sort of graph plot from tests carried out on an actual battery,to give you some idea as to how much the internal value increases as the voltage drops. Once you have some estimates-say at 100mV intervals,you could then adjust you VR to mimic that internal resistance when using the cap,at those 100mV intervals.

It seems that you have stepped into the Portable Logic Discombobulator (DLP) shipped directly from The Bizarro Duller Image Inc.  Remember when I mentioned about acting on thoughts without thinking a bit deeper before the premature pearls of wisdom start popping out?

The DLP is used by the Bizarro World debaters to dull their wits in preparation for a big debate.  You step into it and there are buttons for the various discombobulation settings; "Sauté," "Sizzle," and "Pan-Fry."

Would you like to super-size your fries what that?  Your supporters are rooting for you.

MileHigh