New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences

[Hel]

Just one thing to add... I'm not sure if you're aware but if you have an electron beam, for example, and you move a magnet close to the beam, the beam will bend.

Yes I made simple experiments using a xenon flash tube or a little burnt lightbulb
with some 10KV DC from an air ionizer pcb (a little useful "toy" I often use for my tests).
It's interesting to note how the effect is slight, even approaching a strong HD neo magnet,
but the deflection definitely is there. I couldn't see any appreciable
deflection with sparks instead, eg from a large capacitor, perhaps just because
the cinetic energy of electrons there is too high and would require a much stronger
magnetic field to be deflected.

Though you have to move the magnet, it doesn't actually do any work on the electrons, it just changes their direction. Once the magnet is there it will continue to redirect adinfinitum.

That's sure, it's a conservative field. The energy is only required to change the scenario,
not to maintain it. Really, from as I see things, we have an electric field in motion
(the beam) interacting with another E field in motion inside the magnet. Mainstream
phisics states that this "motion" is not just due to the electron atomic orbitals, but
to their intrinsic spin too. Unfortunately my TOE is just on beginning and I can't
predict yet what really happens here. Chances are that an electron is really a bistable
configuration ( F(F(x))=x ) thus what they call spin.

You've probably seen me post about this in the testatika group but this might be useful in your attempt to make use of ions and free electrons in the air. So you use a certain amount of energy to redirect already moving ions or free electrons toward where you want them. The total energy of those redirected ions or free electrons can be greater than the energy you use to do the redirection...

Sure, I agree on that, the problem is just putting that into practice
Here's the point, how Buamann could try to achieve that by accident. I figure out
some very precise timing and mechanical properties would be required by any
apparatus to realize all that theory. NASA stuff, rocket science, very high precision,
perhaps some nanotech involved, call it how you prefer. Otherwise, such an "accident"
should have happened more frequently in the story... maybe I see it the wrong way,
of course.

It's very much like a heat pump which uses mechanical energy to move matter containing heat energy but in this case you'd use electrical energy to move particles containing mechanical energy (?). The key, though, is they have to already be moving. That's the source of excess energy. If you have to do the work to make them move in the first place then you gain nothing.

I feel the heat pump / charge pump is the key concept but I can't figure out yet how to
realize it in pratcice. I'm not sure on the fact that charges have to already be moving,
perhaps I'm missing your deep point here. I see ready separated charges and
heat both as a form of potential energy even if this comparison may seem counter
intuitive. Why ? If we use energy (heat) to heat an ideal mass totally insulated from the
outside world, thus conceptually avoiding any thermodynamic equilibrium, the thermal
energy is stored inside that mass as motion or vibration of its particles. And it should
theoretically stay there. If we use energy (EM, mechanical,) to separate charges, eg.
charging a capacitor or inductively charging a body, and theorically avoiding migration
and losses, we stored the energy there and it should stay there undefinitely. That's
why, with a great generality, I see both things as a form of potential energy.
When you allow the thermal equilirium, for example allowing the heat of
the body in the first example to spread to a contacting cooler body, you can use
that energy flowing. Same when discharging a charged body, allowing negative charges to
join positive charges again, you have your original energy back and you can use it.
That a heat pump moves the heat and doesn't create it is a right and common definition,
but it's perhaps better thought as making a work to continually oppose to thermal
equilibrium.
So, for analogy, a "charge pump" shouldn't in my view neither separate the charges
nor harvesting their motion (cinetic energy), but simply do something to oppose to
their tendency to join themselves.
Note that I'm mumbling publicly here... a bit stressed by the hand work I'm doing for
my electrodes... what a nightmare!

PS. It's scary how much the tone of your writing and your attitude in your approach to this problem sounds like mine. Like reading in a mirror.

Nice to hear that
I have to admit that I feel somehow childish and stupid in my current approach.
A kind of feticism is driving me towards almost blindly building a testbed where the
disks are identical to those of the 3KW machine. And that cost me lots of hard work.
And I don't know exactly what will happen and what I will do. I will go on by
instinct only, or almost.

For Stefan - you're right. I should have started with the principle, with something
less complicated. It would have been more rational. But I'm a woman, and I'm
not completely rational. Perhaps Baumann is really dead (RIP) and he's trying to
drive me crazy, even after trespassing he's trying to condition my mind as
perhaps he did when alive with the members of his community 
Btw, I will of course try the swinging arm experiment, sooner or later. Surely
I will do, how could I don't! But I have some concern about elecrets. Reading
Steven's negative experiences in making those, I don't believe I will have more
luck...

[Steven Dufresne]

You've probably seen me post about this in the testatika group but this might be useful in your attempt to make use of ions and free electrons in the air. So you use a certain amount of A to redirect already moving ions or free electrons toward where you want them. The total A of those redirected ions or free electrons can be greater than the energy you use to do the redirection...

Sure, I agree on that, the problem is just putting that into practice Here's the point, how Buamann could try to achieve that by accident. I figure out some very precise timing and mechanical properties would be required by any apparatus to realize all that theory. NASA stuff, rocket science, very high precision, perhaps some nanotech involved, call it how you prefer. Otherwise, such an "accident" should have happened more frequently in the story... maybe I see it the wrong way, of course.

Sorry, I don't have any suggestions on how. I adandoned this idea when I saw the video of Baumann lighting the lightbulb with the 3kW machine. Lot's of power there.

...
So, for analogy, a "charge pump" shouldn't in my view neither separate the charges nor harvesting their motion (cinetic energy), but simply do something to oppose to their tendency to join themselves.

I agree with you about the first analogy (a zero-sum game) and disagree about the second (a net energy gain.) If all you're doing is redirecting the already moving charges then you're doing no more than sticking a pipe in a stream and redirecting it to your turbine. Nevermind, I agree with you. It's not a charge pump.

But I also don't see how you could "simply do something to oppose their tendency to join themselves." If you do that then it remains potential energy and you get nothing out of it. I can see why you're having trouble figuring out how to do it.

I have to admit that I feel somehow childish and stupid in my current approach. A kind of feticism is driving me towards almost blindly building a testbed where the disks are identical to those of the 3KW machine. And that cost me lots of hard work. And I don't know exactly what will happen and what I will do. I will go on by instinct only, or almost.

And maybe it'll work or maybe it won't and you'll try another approach after. But you will learn more than someone just sitting there doing nothing, and you'll be able to apply what you've learned to your next try.

Btw, I will of course try the swinging arm experiment, sooner or later. Surely I will do, how could I don't! But I have some concern about elecrets. Reading Steven's negative experiences in making those, I don't believe I will have more luck...

Don't let my failure to make them stop you. I stupidly didn't put an ammeter in series. If I did I would have realized my current was too high and then I would have put a large resistor in series. Then it probably would have worked. It's just that I don't need one right now, otherwise I'd do it again.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

[Hel]

Dear Steven et al.,
I'd better to shut down and work at the moment, really 
Temptation to exchange some ideas with other people interested in the T was strong,
but it's better for me to proceed with order.
Since, as I told, my approach here is by choice "childish" in the hope to discover
some childish simple principle, thus avoiding any math or scientific analysis BEFORE,
I will avoid any loud rambling or public ruminations 

As soon as I finish my setup I will post a brief introduction on yahoo T group along
with photos and interesting observations I made with the available information we have,
mainly about the 3KW machine. Since I have no real theories, just observations, I
will limit to those, in the hope they might enlight (eheheh... Baumann's enlightment
somebody else and/or allow some useful theory and ideas arise.

Sorry, I don't have any suggestions on how. I adandoned this idea when I saw the video of Baumann lighting the lightbulb with the 3kW machine. Lot's of power there.

101% efficiency would be enough for me, at least at beginning
I would avoid discussing too much here for the fact that I prefer to keep all discussions
about T in only one place, the proper side which is IMHO the yahoo group.
Reading thru the archive, I read with interest the posts of Alchemist (about 2007).
A guy who claimed to have reached apparently unusual results but not completely
explaining them, and I frankly don't know to what point he was sincere or he was
just fooling us. For an example, he told he managed to have his Whimshurst almost
self running using a feedack mechanism that I will of course try out, when my setup is
ready. That alone would already be a great result, a start point to study with scientific
rigour.

But I also don't see how you could "simply do something to oppose their tendency to join themselves." If you do that then it remains potential energy and you get nothing out of it.

I remember to you that I was just thinking too laugh
I mean, to allow them to join thru the path YOU WANT (eg, a load, directly or
indirectly) rather than what would have been their natural tendency to join elsewhere,
making no useful work to you. Going back to my drops analogy, just avoid drops
dripping directly to the ground, but thru and alternative path. For example,
in a closed room, you will avoid the heat to flow outside, better letting it flowing to
the boides of the occupying persons. Don't let it reach equilibrium with the outside
world, make it reach equilibrium with the inside world first.
Btw, don't take too seriously these ruminations...

And maybe it'll work or maybe it won't and you'll try another approach after. But you will learn more than someone just sitting there doing nothing, and you'll be able to apply what you've learned to your next try.

INDEED. That's what I think. Even if I won't reach any interesting result, in the worst
case I will have learned something useful. Experience is enrichment.

Don't let my failure to make them stop you. I stupidly didn't put an ammeter in series. If Idid I would have realized my current was too high and then I would have put a large resistor in series. Then it probably would have worked. It's just that I don't need one right now, otherwise I'd do it again.

That's interesting... avoiding too much current. I will remark it.

[Steven Dufresne]

Dear Steven et al.,
I'd better to shut down and work at the A, really 
Temptation to exchange some ideas with other people interested in the T was strong,
but it's better for me to proceed with order.
Since, as I told, my approach here is by choice "childish" in the hope to discover
some childish simple principle, thus avoiding any math or scientific analysis BEFORE,
I will avoid any loud rambling or public ruminations 

Sounds like a plan. Looking forward to your results.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

[gauschor]

Disk gets charged by rotation (well, they should at least, even if I don't see how without tribo contact)

I wanted to add something in here, but I don't know if it works. I'm sure some of you remember the small video about the Testatika and Luzi (or who the guy was) building the 2m diameter Testatika disc claiming that the grid-segments on the disc need to be slightly magnetized otherwise it wouldn't work.
I have digged in some forums and and found out that with different magnetizations you can move charges on segments. So lets assume you have magnetized the sectors on 1 disk magnetized with one Magnetpole and the sectors of disk 2 with the other magnetpole one would have 2 different influencing segments without even using a neutralizer or anything else.
It might be possible that this could be a way to get the same electrostatic effects as a wimshurst - just without any contact.

(PS: aluminium cannot be magnetized)