STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM

[Airstriker]

That longitudinal annealing you mention simply ensures the squarest loop, highest remanence, and lower H field to achieve saturation. As long as you respect the considerations I listed ablove about high remanence, you should see some of the benefits I mentioned - reduced DC power requirement to saturate (the core already retains most of its magnetization), higher permeability at a distance but when magnet gets close permeabilty (and torque) is reduced.

In order to gain more torque, a material with higher Bsat should be used. There may be tradeoffs in other areas, but some of the materials I listed above will provide that additional flux density and still allow for a steep permeability drop in saturation with very little increase in current to get there.

Finemet, Supermendur, etc. should be investigated to see if overall performance and/or efficiency is better or worse than Metglas. If your Finemet cores are heavier, you might want to use more turns. Is the Finemet you have square loop (remanent), magnetic amplifier material or low remanence A material?

0c

Hi 0c. I almost liked your last posts about high remanence and high Bsat cores. But I think there is a flaw in these cosiderations (tell me if I wrong or not as I'm not sure yet). Let's investigate the following scenario:
1. Saturate the core at TDC
2. Leave the saturation point at some point where it's no longer needed.
3. We've got some remaining field in the core (as high as the remanence is).
4. Next set of magnets is approaching the toroid.
5. As we were left with some level of magnetisation (due to remanence) the approaching magnets will add some more magnetisation to the core. This will simply lead the saturation way too quickly (before the magnets reach TDC) and so all in all will reduce the torque

This is exactly why I originally adviced to go through the whole hysteresis loop (please read the following...):
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8411.msg223002#msg223002

Tell me what you think about this. Thx in advance.

By the way, Paul how are you going to get past the remanence when capturing the energy back ? I mean most of the energy will stay in the core and you will be able to get only small percent of the energy. But maybe there is a way ?

And speaking about the vertical toroid setup. I can see that Clanzer has actually built it this way If he has done that I think everybody should. After all he should know more ;>

[Airstriker]

Considering Clanzer's replications... I also don't see any more than two wires comming from the toroid. So forget about bifilar coils. Not needed here.

[PaulLowrance]

Is the Finemet you have square loop (remanent), magnetic amplifier material or low remanence transformer material?

It's semi square loop. FT-3KM K1208A

[PaulLowrance]

By the way, Paul how are you going to get past the remanence when capturing the energy back ? I mean most of the energy will stay in the core and you will be able to get only small percent of the energy. But maybe there is a way ?

Since the Metglas MAGAMP is ultra high permeability, it means there's hardly no energy contained in it until you go into the saturation area. That's what I keep telling everyone. All of the action in the Orbo is well into the saturation curve. Everyone should completely forget about anything less than saturation. It's meaningless for the Orbo replications. Meaningless!

Everyone should listen to this. These cores normally take hardly no energy to flip their polarity. The amount of current is practically *nothing.*  But that applies hardly no force on affecting the domains that are under the influence of the magnet. It takes a lot of current to flip the domains back away from the magnet, but the longitudinally annealed core helps.

So all of the work in the Orbo motor is done when the core is well into the saturation curve. If you look at an Ising simulation you'll see that cores (including square loop cores) are appreciably flat curve in the saturation area, which is why their permeability is low in the saturation area. I verified this. Nearly all of the energy that I put into the Metglas MAGAMP core in the "tiny orbo replication" comes back. Right now I have it dumping the energy into an LED.

[Airstriker]

One thing is for certain, and that if the magnet is too close to the core, then it requires too much current.

Why is that The core should saturate more so the current needed to fully saturate it should be less.