STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM

[Honk]

Also, why can't there be more than one right way?  Why does it have to be this and can't be this or that?  Sometimes there is more than 1 road taking you to the same location.

Not when it comes down to efficiency calculations !
Then out/in is the only correct method.

[gravityblock]

Not when it comes down to efficiency calculations !
Then out/in is the only correct method.

Efficiency is different from COP!  When did I or anybody else mention anything about efficiency.  The measurements taken by Naudin were COP measurements and not efficiency measurements.  Groundloop posted a circuit to test for OU without doing any measurements, http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8597.msg231011#msg231011  Another test is if it can self-run.  As you can see, there are other methods than measuring the input/output in order to determine OU or not.

The variable theoretical maximum COP of a standard heat pump can be as high as 9.22. The usual home heat pump has an efficiency of only about 50% or less, so that at least half of all its energy input is lost.

However, the heat pump extracts and receives so much additional free (or nearly free) heat energy from its external environment that it still outputs from 3 to 4 times as much heat energy as the electrical input energy paid for by the operator. So the heat pump’s actual COP is usually about COP = 3.0 to 4.0.  Reference Material for this is at the bottom of page 6 and the top of page 7, http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=374  and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump

COP>1 doesn't mean it can self-run if it can't utilize the excess energy generated that is wasted as heat or other losses.  Even if it can't utilize this excess energy, it is still OU.  Measuring the input/output won't tell if it's OU or not if it can't utilize the excess energy in order to feed it back to the input.  Naudin says, "Of course, to get a true 2SGen unit working in closed loop, the drivers circuit must be optimized and need to overcome the hysteresis losses and the joules losses. Nevertheless, the physic phenomenon here is very interesting and worth to be deeply explored, the 2SGen is a very promising device..."

He never measured input versus output to determine the efficiency, but instead measured the COP.  If he measure the input versus output, then it would more than likely be less than 100%.  According to wings in the solid state thread, he thinks the efficiency is 98% in regards to input/output.  The bottom line is, if you don't have a COP>1, then you have no hope of tapping this excess energy in order for it to self-run.

GB

[Airstriker]

GB, I've already said why 2SGen setup is better. I've also said what can be improved in it. And I only said what Magluvin is doing with the energy stored in the toroid coil and that it can be recycled. Nothing more. What's not clear in it ?

And again I will ask - where is that toroid's coil load in 2SGen that you are using to get excess energy? I don't really see it in the circuit. You are referring to Zaev but he is using only one coil which in fact is under load. So where does your words make sense ?

Wikipedia says:
The coefficient of performance or COP (sometimes CP), of a heat pump is the ratio of the change in heat at the "output" (the heat reservoir of interest) to the supplied work.

In our case the supplied work is the magnetisation of the toroid core by the current applied to the toroid's coil. Where is Nauding measuring it ?

[wings]

  According to wings in the solid state thread, he thinks the efficiency is 98% in regards to input/output.  The bottom line is, if you don't have a COP>1, then you have no hope of tapping this excess energy in order for it to self-run.

GB

there was a mistake in the circuit 10Kohm in series to the toroid is now 220 ohm the input/output power ratio goes down from 98 to 2.2 anyway more than 1

here the corrected circuit and estimation:

[gravityblock]

GB, I've already said why 2SGen setup is better. I've also said what can be improved in it. And I only said what Magluvin is doing with the energy stored in the toroid coil and that it can be recycled. Nothing more. What's not clear in it ?

And again I will ask - where is that toroid's coil load in 2SGen that you are using to get excess energy? I don't really see it in the circuit. You are referring to Zaev but he is using only one coil which in fact is under load. So where does your words make sense ?

Wikipedia says:
The coefficient of performance or COP (sometimes CP), of a heat pump is the ratio of the change in heat at the "output" (the heat reservoir of interest) to the supplied work.

In our case the supplied work is the magnetisation of the toroid core by the current applied to the toroid's coil. Where is Nauding measuring it ?

Who said anything about Magluvin being able to recapture the energy stored from the pulse in the toroid not being clear?  This is nothing new and is very common to recapture the energy from the collapsing field.  It is very clear to me and I don't know what I said to make you think it's not clear.

I've been talking about Naudin's experiments and have not been referring to Zaev experiments, but you keep insisting I am, LOL.  This is probably due to Naudin setting up his COP measurment experiment according to Zaev's findings.

He's measuring the magnetization of the toroid core across RLoad of the output coil for a very good reason.  The reason is to increase the power density.  Increase of power density is possible by increase of H_c up to 10-15 A/M by selection of core material, increase of frequency, and by a high speed diode. 

Measuring this increase in power density can't be achieved by measuring it across the toroid.  This is the reason why the energy received during demagnetization of the core is much greater than the energy spent for magnetization of the core due to the steps followed to increase the power density.  If those steps weren't followed, then the COP may be greater than 1, but it would also be much less than the 13.7 due to the increase in power density as measured across the RLoad of the output coil.

Don't say something is wrong if you don't know or understand the reasons behind something.

GB