STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM

[k4zep]

Ben,

Once again, nice job! When you get a chance, could you place a DC battery along with an inductor in series with your large toroid while the magnets are spinning and show the a scope trace off voltage across the toroid? The reason for adding the inductor is to help block as much AC going into the battery so you can see the AC voltage produced by the magnets due to the toroid effective permeability changing from the magnets.

This might be revealing what I've seen in FEMM for a long time. I believe Steorn claim is legit, but I don't think it's a simple as it appears here. Indeed there would be no bemf on a perfectly uniform toroid, but this design is an entirely different animal, where the issue is a change in effective permeability.

So once again I think the excess energy would come from magnetic viscosity.

Anyhow, I think you guys will be surprised when you see how the magnets induce AC voltage on the toroid when there's current flowing through the toroid.

Hi Paul,

One of many things to try.  I believe you are wanting me to bias the coils through an inductor with a separate isolated supply and then look at the resultant AC that develops across that inductor.  Probably easier to energize the main coil and then AC couple to the coil and spin the magnets and see if there is external field excitation of the core when energized at various levels of current in the coil.  Mechanically, due to the angular mechanics of core/magnet interface, you might see something if the orientation is there.  The real question then is if there is modulation of the inductance, does it have any net effect on the motor or is just an ac anomaly internal to the coil if it does not saturate the coil but remains in a somewhat linear portion of the cores permeability window.  Just a thought, perhaps electromagnetic or magnetic bias of coil to shift it into optimum switching window for optimum operation.  Sheesss, hope that makes sense.

As for magnetic viscosity, one of many possibly good theories out there.  Perhaps you would like elaborate on that theory so I can understand what I am looking for.

Ben

[interestedinou]

Does the following show the back EMF going in the correct direction? I am considering building this setup. I really need to know.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8411.0;attach=40150;image

Here's the code to import the circuit in the java applet:

$ 1 5.0E-6 12.050203812241895 50 5.0 50
v 432 320 432 144 0 0 40.0 5.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
l 240 144 240 320 0 1.0 0.0786318065125002
159 432 320 304 320 0 20.0 1.0E10
159 304 144 432 144 0 20.0 1.0E10
w 240 144 304 144 0
w 240 320 304 320 0
R 368 224 304 224 0 2 20.0 10.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 368 160 368 224 0
w 368 224 368 304 0
w 240 320 240 432 0
w 240 432 528 432 0
w 528 432 528 144 0
d 528 144 432 144 1 0.805904783
d 432 320 560 320 1 0.805904783
w 560 320 560 96 0
w 560 96 240 96 0
w 240 96 240 144 0
o 1 64 0 35 10.0 0.1 0 -1

applet link: http://www.falstad.com/circuit/

This will dump all the energy directly back into the battery. I also attached an illustration of it. The signal generator is meant for switching the switches, in orbo's case this is the optical signal.

[PaulLowrance]

Probably easier to energize the main coil and then AC couple to the coil and spin the magnets and see if there is external field excitation of the core when energized at various levels of current in the coil.

That would a lot better if you don't mind adding a secondary coil. I have no idea how many turns it would have to be in order for your scope to pick up the AC over noise.

As for magnetic viscosity, one of many possibly good theories out there.  Perhaps you would like elaborate on that theory so I can understand what I am looking for.

Oh, I don't want to bore you with this stuff. It's the same old stuff I've worked on for years,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PaulLowrance

It's interesting that Steorn has also mentioned magnetic viscosity as being a key ingredient to Orbo. IMO there's definitely something very sensitive going on with their design, far far more than a permeability motor. Have you seen how much the eOrbo rpm varies. It's crazy. Something that seems very difficult and sensitive to capture, and IMO Steorn's got it.

[interestedinou]

Does the following show the back EMF going in the correct direction? I am considering building this setup. I really need to know.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8411.0;attach=40150;image

Could someone look at the image attached and tell me if the flyback is flowing in the right direction?

[interestedinou]

@Broli,
I like the circuit, but is it showing the back EMF flowing in the correct direction?

Can anyone please tell us if the current is flowing in the right direction in diagram in that post?

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8411.msg216551#msg216551

I really need to know.