STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM

[broli]

Stephan:

Let me briefly discuss the voltage generated in the toroidal coil before he does his experiment because it will be helpful.

Suppose you have a normal coil of wire that has 10 clockwise turns and 10 millihenries of inductance.  If you move a magnet in the vicinity of this coil you will see voltage generated across the coil.

If you now add another 10 turns to this coil, but this time in a counter-clockwise direction then the 10 counter-clockwise turns cancel out the 10 clockwise turns.  Now the coil will measure 0 millihenries of inductance.  When you move a magnet in the vicinity of this 10 turns CW + 10 turns CCW coil you will see that there is no voltage generated across the coil.

So what about a toroidal coil?  Supposing you take the magnet's point of view and you are looking edge-on at the toroidal coil like you see in the Steorn demonstration clip.

The magnet sees the left side of the toroidal coil as having clockwise turns.  It sees the right side of the toroidal coil as having counter-clockwise turns.  Therefore the left and right sides of the toroidal coil cancel each other out just like in the example above.   The coils in the center of the toroidal coil do not "see" the changing magnetic flux because they are oriented in the same direction, there is no changing magnetic flux being "cut" by the coils in the center of the toroidal coil, for both the closer coils and the further away coils.  The other coils of wire in the toroidal coil that are to either side of the center line partially cut flux, but they cancel each other out also.

The net result of all of this is that the net changing magnetic flux seen by the toroidal coil in the Steorn setup is almost zero.  As the magnets fly by the toroidal coil, all of the changing magnetic flux seen by each individual turn of the toroidal coil, when they are all added together, will nearly completely cancel out.

However, it will not be a perfect cancellation, there will still be a very tiny net change in flux which will generate a very tiny change in the output voltage from the toroidal coil.

So Steorn chose a toroidal coil arrangement to saturate the core inside the coil.  This makes perfect sense.  We know that by saturating the coil it makes it appear to "disappear" when the magnet is leaving the vicinity of the saturated toroidal coil.  Therefore there is attraction when the magnet is approaching the metal core of the toroid which speeds up the motor, and there is no opposite attraction causing the motor to slow down when the magnet is leaving the vicinity of metal core of the toroid because it "dissapears."

However, the whole time the magnet is flying by the toroidal coil of wire that is wound around the metal core, Lenz's Law is inducing voltage and/or current in the coil.  It just so happens that the geometry of the windings of the coil are such that very little net change in magnetic flux is seen by the toroidal coil.  A toroidal coil is just a variation on 10 clockwise turns being canceled out by 10 counter-clockwise turns.

The real issue underneath all of this is that it takes electrical energy to saturate the coil.  You can see it in the Steorn clip and K4zep's clip.  The real question is is the electrical energy required to saturate the coil more or less than the rotational energy added to the rotor when the magnet flies by the toroidal coil?  That is the key critical question and I haven't seen any discussion about it around here.

MileHigh

Good morning to you too. Too bad you missed the train and arrived to a conclusion which everyone and his cat already accepted. But I guess that's the sickness attention seekers like you have. Next time try to be on time.

[k4zep]

Hi Gang,

A further video.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jafdIK5tzAs

Mile high has some very good observations and very good pointed questions as to theory of this device, most excellent.  We can discuss them as time passes by....Are we having fun?

Happy new year.

Ben

[MileHigh]

Broli:

Good morning to you too. Too bad you missed the train and arrived to a conclusion which everyone and his cat already accepted. But I guess that's the sickness attention seekers like you have. Next time try to be on time.

Mile high has some very good observations and very good pointed questions as to theory of this device, most excellent.  We can discuss them as time passes by....Are we having fun?

You were the 10 counter-clockwise turns and K4zep was the 10 clockwise turns so the statements canceled each other out, with the bonus that people can look at your statements and draw some conclusions about your character.

MileHigh

[k4zep]

Stephan:

Let me briefly discuss the voltage generated in the toroidal coil before he does his experiment because it will be helpful.

Suppose you have a normal coil of wire that has 10 clockwise turns and 10 millihenries of inductance.  If you move a magnet in the vicinity of this coil you will see voltage generated across the coil.

If you now add another 10 turns to this coil, but this time in a counter-clockwise direction then the 10 counter-clockwise turns cancel out the 10 clockwise turns.  Now the coil will measure 0 millihenries of inductance.  When you move a magnet in the vicinity of this 10 turns CW + 10 turns CCW coil you will see that there is no voltage generated across the coil.

So what about a toroidal coil?  Supposing you take the magnet's point of view and you are looking edge-on at the toroidal coil like you see in the Steorn demonstration clip.

The magnet sees the left side of the toroidal coil as having clockwise turns.  It sees the right side of the toroidal coil as having counter-clockwise turns.  Therefore the left and right sides of the toroidal coil cancel each other out just like in the example above.   The coils in the center of the toroidal coil do not "see" the changing magnetic flux because they are oriented in the same direction as the magnetic field, there is no changing magnetic flux being "cut" by the coils in the center of the toroidal coil, for both the closer coils and the further away coils.  The other coils of wire in the toroidal coil that are to either side of the center line partially cut flux, but they cancel each other out also.

The net result of all of this is that the net changing magnetic flux seen by the toroidal coil in the Steorn setup is almost zero.  As the magnets fly by the toroidal coil, all of the changing magnetic flux seen by each individual turn of the toroidal coil, when they are all added together, will nearly completely cancel out.

However, it will not be a perfect cancellation, there will still be a very tiny net change in flux which will generate a very tiny change in the output voltage from the toroidal coil.

So Steorn chose a toroidal coil arrangement to saturate the core inside the coil.  This makes perfect sense.  We know that by saturating the coil it makes it appear to "disappear" when the magnet is leaving the vicinity of the saturated toroidal coil.  Therefore there is attraction when the magnet is approaching the metal core of the toroid which speeds up the motor, and there is no opposite attraction causing the motor to slow down when the magnet is leaving the vicinity of metal core of the toroid because it "dissapears."

However, the whole time the magnet is flying by the toroidal coil of wire that is wound around the metal core, Lenz's Law is inducing voltage and/or current in the coil.  It just so happens that the geometry of the windings of the coil are such that very little net change in magnetic flux is seen by the toroidal coil.  A toroidal coil is just a variation on 10 clockwise turns being canceled out by 10 counter-clockwise turns.

The real issue underneath all of this is that it takes electrical energy to saturate the coil.  You can see it in the Steorn clip and K4zep's clip.  The real question is is the electrical energy required to saturate the coil more or less than the rotational energy added to the rotor when the magnet flies by the toroidal coil?  That is the key critical question and I haven't seen any discussion about it around here.


MHand all

Hi MH,

I'm for anyone jumping into the discussion as long as they remain a gentleman. 

The problem with induction and bifilar wound coils is simple, sort of like the chicken and the egg, which comes first. 

If you don't have inductance you can't have induction, but if you have induction  and a magnetic field INSIDE the core from nominal external excition (power supply), does the passing magnetic fields interact with the internal field and in return show up in the coil when it is balanced or cause a special type of field anti-torque reflected back into the magnetic rotor?  Don't know yet, Obviously with the coil around the core on, it is shielded from external fields, but when floating, of course there could be interaction but to what.  There is no load on the coil, therefore there is no current flow and hence no induction fields.....funky.  If I can get the effective coil inductance down to <.1ufH with tedious trimming of individual coil turns and hence a resistive load, perhaps we can precede further into this discussion as a building block in our knowledge into this mode of operation.

OU, I don't know. Steorn thinks so.....I suspect the effect is OU expressed in mechanical terms, but is there enough for the "ride to glory!". Until I get a refined enough motor to run a generator, I haven't a clue.
Now darn it, there are some crackerjack of builders out there because I have seen their work, lets get a few more of these motors operating!!!!!


Respectfully,
Ben

[lumen]

Lumen I suggest you reevaluate your basic electric/electronic understanding.

Well, if you think about any coil on a relay, which way is the shunt diode that SHORTS the fly back?

Hmmm... it's not in the direction of the initial current flow.

I have been in electronics for 30 years.... I probably have an idea. I have a two oscilloscopes also and can set it up to look like anything, but the term fly back IS exactly what it means.