STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM

[freeorbo]

But there is one thing I don't understand if it's the way you say it is. Why does ORBO have such a big air gap between magnets and toroid ?

From my own playing with a pulsed toroid coil, I've noticed that at about .75" there is a strong magnetic repulsion to both poles of a magnet. If you hold a magnet lightly at that distance it'll spin. then as you move it closer, you can press through the repulsion (it's not very strong) and you'll feel the magnet passing through a sort of barrier or flip/flop zone so to speak, and moving closer in it becomes attracted to the core.

My interpretation would be that there's a zone where the field of the permanent magnet is interacting with the field from the coil, which is a very odd, circling, whirlpool of a field, almost like magnetic wind (and probably generating eddy currents in the magnetic field) which is constantly disrupting the field of the magnet. But once it gets close enough to the core, more of the magnet's field "pours" into the core where it finds a more stable resting place. And once the magnet is all the way attached to the core, the majority of its field is going to be occupied there, resisting the "wind" of the core.

there's a pretty common misconception that the core is canceling out the attraction between the magnet and the core, like it's rendering the attraction inert. It's not.

It feels more like the coil is setting up a smokescreen between them, an area of magnetic entropy, wild and thick, that prevents the magnet from pouring it's field into the core. But once the magnet penetrates far enough into that "smoke" it can then "see" the core and permeate it's field more fully.

So the air gap is there to let the magnetic "fog" from the coil look "thick enough" that the magnet doesn't "see" the core.


Makes me wonder if Naudin's SSGen is working the opposite of how I first thought- I was thinking the power to the coil made the magnet "ignore" the core and pour its field into the air coil. But maybe instead the toroidal core power makes the magnet "ignore" the air coil, since the magnet is inside of the "fog belt"?

If there was a high speed camera that could visualize magnetic fields, this would all be easier to understand.

[gravityblock]

From my own playing with a pulsed toroid coil, I've noticed that at about .75" there is a strong magnetic repulsion to both poles of a magnet. If you hold a magnet lightly at that distance it'll spin. then as you move it closer, you can press through the repulsion (it's not very strong) and you'll feel the magnet passing through a sort of barrier or flip/flop zone so to speak, and moving closer in it becomes attracted to the core.

That's what I've been trying to get people to notice in the magnetic recording tape video I have done, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siTcmKNDXyE

When the tape is magnetized, then the tape will repel the magnet if you approach the tape from a distance slowly to the magnet.  If you approach the tape to the magnets too fast, then it breaks through this light repulsive zone and then attracts to the magnets.  Since this experiment is done with the magnetic recording tape, everyone is ignoring it because they don't think the recording tape is being used in the Orbo.  The recording tape shows the effect much better, but it is the same effect with other core materials.

It's showing the magnetic viscosity or relaxation of the material and makes the interactions time variant.  Nobody is paying attention.  They're more focused with the pulse nearly saturating the core material to its fullest while overlooking the effects when the domains are just pointing in the direction of the field of the magnets whenever we stay on the linear portions of the core material.

If this effect is used properly, then it may be possible for it to ride this light repulsive force after TDC if the core isn't close to being fully saturated and are on the linear portions of it.  If the core is on the linear portions, instead of being nearly saturated, and the magnets are the appropriate distance from the toroids, then this effect will manifest itself and the rotor magnets will be able to ride this light repulsive force and will get a push.  This is where the energy gain in induction is occurring, because it's riding this repulsive force and the rotor has more mechanical energy gained than the electrical energy put into it. 

Everybody is still trying to do what we've been trying to do for the last 100 plus years and it hasn't worked for us yet, and it's not going to work for us now.  We must do something different.  Yes, it may appear to be counter intuitive, but somethings that appear to be counter intuitive can have amazing results.

Good post freeorbo.  People need to start paying attention to this effect and stop doing what has already been done for the last 100 plus years and that is nearly saturating the material to its fullest (this isn't anything new).  Sometimes more is not better, and more saturation where it is nearly saturated to it's fullest may not be better in the case of the Orbo.

GB

[0c]

From my own playing with a pulsed toroid coil, I've noticed that at about .75" there is a strong magnetic repulsion to both poles of a magnet. If you hold a magnet lightly at that distance it'll spin. then as you move it closer, you can press through the repulsion (it's not very strong) and you'll feel the magnet passing through a sort of barrier or flip/flop zone so to speak, and moving closer in it becomes attracted to the core.

Interesting effect. You say it repels either pole? If that's the case, I would like to suggest an experiment using a neo sphere, sort of a ball-in-a-bowl experiment.

Mark the neo sphere with different colors at each pole, so any motion will be obvious. Drop it into a small bowl or cup with rounded bottom. Lay the coil on the table and bring the bowl slowly towards the coil until the interaction you described takes effect.

If anything interesting happens, get it on video.

Note:
I'm not sure whether this effect is relevant to Steorn discussion. You might want to start another thread about this effect.

[gravityblock]

Interesting effect. You say it repels either pole? If that's the case, I would like to suggest an experiment using a neo sphere, sort of a ball-in-a-bowl experiment.

Mark the neo sphere with different colors at each pole, so any motion will be obvious. Drop it into a small bowl or cup with rounded bottom. Lay the coil on the table and bring the bowl slowly towards the coil until the interaction you described takes effect.

If anything interesting happens, get it on video.

Note:
I'm not sure whether this effect is relevant to Steorn discussion. You might want to start another thread about this effect.

Start another thread because you think it may not be relevant to the Steorn discussion?  This effect may be at the very heart of the Orbo and you want another thread started.  Unbelievable.  I think it is very relevant to the Orbo.  Let's just sweep this under the carpet like everything else and continue doing things the way they have been done for the last 100 plus years.

This effect needs to stay in this thread because I think it is the Orbo effect.  It's nothing more than magnetic viscosity or magnetic relaxation that Steorn has mentioned over and over again.  You think near saturation is the most important thing, lol.  That is B.S. and near saturation has been tried over and over again without success.  Near saturation isn't any different than any other pulse motor.  Let's stop doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result.  That is insanity.

GB

[mondrasek]

When the tape is magnetized, then the tape will repel the magnet if you approach the tape from a distance slowly to the magnet.  If you approach the tape to the magnets too fast, then it breaks through this light repulsive zone and then attracts to the magnets.

GB, I've just played with a toroid made from VHS tape and a strong neo.  Here is what I see:

1)  Magnetized the tape toriod by touching to the N side of a permanent magnet.  The N side of the permanent magnet will now be attracted to the toroid when approached slowly.  This is due to the remenance of the tape toroid: it was magnetized by it's initial interaction with the permanent magnet.  If approached from above, but slightly off center, the attraction will cause the permanent magnet to first slide horizontally to center itself directly below the toroid.  Now as the toroid continues to approach the magnet the magnet will eventually have enough attraction to jump up to the toroid.  This delay in the action of the permanent magnet sliding to become directly under the magnet and (pause delay) the jump up to the toroid is simply explained:  When the toroid is close enough to have attractive force greater than the static friction force of the permanent magnet and the surface, but less than enough to lift the magnet, it will slide until directly under the toroid.  It will sit in this position indefinitely if you do not move the toroid closer.  The "delay" you saw is controlled only by the distance between the tape toroid and magnet.

2)  Magnetized the tape toroid by touching to the N side of a permanent magnet.  The S side of the permanent magnet will now be repelled by the toroid when approached slowly.  This is also due to the remenance of the tape toroid: it was magnetized by it's initial interaction with the permanent magnet.  If you restrain the permanent magnet so that it cannot move away from the approaching tape toroid that is repelling it, eventually the magnet will re-magnetize the tape toroid in the opposite polarity and the permanent magnet will again jump up to and attach to the tape toroid.

I'm not saying there is no display of magnetic viscosity.  But I am not able to see it in this demonstration.  Everything is behaving as expected, for me at least.