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Overunity Machines Forum



STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM

Started by PaulLowrance, December 04, 2009, 09:13:07 AM

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Omnibus

Now that OU has been established to be inherent in the very theory of electricity what remains to be done is to find out why the experimental OU is greater than the theoretical. Obviously, there is only one factor that can be the cause for this difference, namely, the I-V phase shift. It should also be clear that the greater experimental I-V phase shift, compared to the theoretical, cannot be due to errors in measuring R and C. As seen in the theoretical equations, R and C have symmetric effect on the input and the output -- any change in R not only affects the I-V phase shift but also the amplitude of the input current which on its part affects both the input and the output power; a change in C changes both the I-V phase angle and the amplitude of the current which also has equal consequences on both input and output power. Therefore, parasitic capacitance is out as a candidate explanation for the observed discrepancy between theory and experiment regarding OU. Neither can purported parasitic inductance be considered as a candidate explanation because inductance causes change in the I-V phase in a direction opposite to increasing the OU effect. Therefore there must be some other non-trivial reason, other than C or L, that would cause the additional favorable I-V phase shift observed in the experiment.

Omnibus

Quote from: blueplanet on July 03, 2010, 03:06:10 AM
The equations look correct, but Ein will not ram up forever because the impedance of the source has not been taken care of.

The voltage source has its own source impedance. You should not assume that the source impedance is always ZERO, particularly when your output resistance is relatively low.

Experiment, under these conditions, shows that it ramps up forever, though, doesn't it?

blueplanet

The time domain increase of Ein is expected. It is not a sign of OU. R is dissipating energy. That's why it ramps up.

Since Pr = Vr^2/R, you have to prove that Vr > Vin before jumping into conclusion.




Quote from: Omnibus on July 03, 2010, 03:40:10 AM
Experiment, under these conditions, shows that it ramps up forever, though, doesn't it?

Omnibus

Quote from: blueplanet on July 03, 2010, 03:50:37 AM
The time domain increase of Ein is expected. It is not a sign of OU. R is dissipating energy. That's why it ramps up.

Since Pr = Vr^2/R, you have to prove that Vr > Vin before jumping into conclusion.

The time domain increase of the Eout due to dissipation being greater than the time domain increase of the Ein is by no means expected. As seen, however, Eout increase in the time domain is greater than Eout increase in the time domain not only experimentally but, most importantly, also theoretically.

Vr >Vin, whatever you've denoted by this, is irrelevant.

blueplanet


Ein = int(P, dt), meaning that the value of E is the sum of P(delta t).

The circuit disspates energy to R. That's why Ein always increases with time. But this increase is not necessarily linear because Vin will not stay the same forever.


Quote from: blueplanet on July 03, 2010, 03:50:37 AM
The time domain increase of Ein is expected. It is not a sign of OU. R is dissipating energy. That's why it ramps up.

Since Pr = Vr^2/R, you have to prove that Vr > Vin before jumping into conclusion.