Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power

[gotoluc]

Hi everyone,

here is the next video test 4 with the dual coil setup.

I don't know why I can't seem to get the results I had when I first found this effect and tested by holding the coils by hand.

I'll try and retest in case I missed something:thinking: ... let me know if you see something I missed.

Link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjeO28xY_o0

Luc

[gotoluc]

Hi everyone,

it has been over 2 years since I fist started this topic about a AC Permanent Magnet Motor Design idea I had that its motive force would mostly come from Permanent magnets.

Maybe I didn't explain all the design advantages well enough when I fist introduced it so I decided to build a small prototype and do a better video. In this video I demonstrate the design idea I had 2 years ago of bridging over the opposite pole of the Magnet using steel lamination over the outside of the coil.  This takes advantage of the coils outside opposite field which close to doubles the motive force without using additional current..

Please keep in mind that the coil I'm using in this demo model maybe far from optimum. I still need to learn about coil time constant. There are also many other details that could be optimized. So I think it would be fair to say that the motive force could be doubled without additional current input.

I need to learn more about how to calculate the ideal coil resistance and turns for a particular on time, voltage and frequency. So if anyone can see obvious things from the scope shots that the coils on time power is being wasted (not making a strong field) please advise me.
I also need to learn the proper specs for making a Pony Brake to do some load tests.


Links to video's:
Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor Part A:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYoXmDvFqQs

Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor Part B:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnAeIE_NWjU


Your input is welcomed


Luc

[gotoluc]

Here are some scope shots.

ADDED
Please note that the test below is to determined how much this mostly magnet motor is affected by the Generator effect. I am not trying to make a Generator out of it.

The first shot is with the motor working on a 1.3vdc input through a 1 Ohm shunt Resistor in series with probe 1 connected across it and probe 2 is across the coil. Both probe grounds are on the same side of the Resistor (standard current and voltage phase setup). Math function is on probe 1 x probe 2

The next shot is to test the motor as Generator, so now the mostly magnet motor coil is connected to a 10 Ohm load with probe 1 connected across the 1 Ohm series shunt and probe 2 is the voltage across the coil (same as above). I'm using the 12vdc motor (attached to flywheel) as primed mover. The input to the 12vdc motor is 380ma @ 12.63vdc = 4.8 Watts to turn it at the speed of the 2nd scope shot below. It looks to me that at that RPM (which is faster then the previous test) the Generator coil is outputting around 0.070 Watts

To me it looks like the mostly magnet motor is not a good Generator considering the amount of input energy needed to the prime mover. However, we need to keep in mind that the 12vdc motor is operating at a much lower RPM then it was designed for, so it could get better. However there seems to be quite a difference.

ADDED
Details on the Coil:
The mostly magnet motor coil has 4 Ohms DC resistance, made of about 0.8mm to 0.9mm magnet wire, wound bifilar connected in series. It has 19 milli Henry when at each ends of the core and 22.5 milli Henry when at center of core. The actual coil size (not including bobbin) opening is 14mm x 20mm and is 17mm wide

Comments please

Luc

[aaron5120]

Gotoluc,
Hi my friend, I did not notice your design two years ago, but it just caught my attention today. After looking at your YT clips, my conclusion is : very interesting.
Your conception indeed does have validity in utilizing the magnet power and the flux concentrating characteristic of the steel( or ferrite) bars to multiply the force exerted by the moving coil.
I think using the motor to drive the device is a bad idea. This is because you are wasting the input power to overcome the magnets, rather, may I suggest that the flywheel be attached to a DC generator or AC alternator, using the multiplied torque to spin it. I think you will find the output be almost 4 times more than the input( as a minimum rule of thumb).
This is a very efficient piston motor, and you can stack several magnetic "pistons" to the flywheel like a  modern Internal combustion engine does, and drive a big conventional generator with the crankshaft.
The last thing needed to be optimized will be to reduce heat loss due to eddy currents in the steel laminate bars when power goes up. But if speed is maintained in low level, this issue can be ignored. Once again, congratulations, Gotoluc, for disclosing this invention publicly. Now it belongs to the whole Humanity and not to the power that be.

[gotoluc]

Gotoluc,
Hi my friend, I did not notice your design two years ago, but it just caught my attention today. After looking at your YT clips, my conclusion is : very interesting.
Your conception indeed does have validity in utilizing the magnet power and the flux concentrating characteristic of the steel( or ferrite) bars to multiply the force exerted by the moving coil.
I think using the motor to drive the device is a bad idea. This is because you are wasting the input power to overcome the magnets, rather, may I suggest that the flywheel be attached to a DC generator or AC alternator, using the multiplied torque to spin it. I think you will find the output be almost 4 times more than the input( as a minimum rule of thumb).
This is a very efficient piston motor, and you can stack several magnetic "pistons" to the flywheel like a  modern Internal combustion engine does, and drive a big conventional generator with the crankshaft.
The last thing needed to be optimized will be to reduce heat loss due to eddy currents in the steel laminate bars when power goes up. But if speed is maintained in low level, this issue can be ignored. Once again, congratulations, Gotoluc, for disclosing this invention publicly. Now it belongs to the whole Humanity and not to the power that be.

Hi aaron5120,

thank you for your enthusiastic post.

You have misunderstood! ... I plan to use this as a motor!

It is Stefan that asked me to do the test with the scope shot above (on youtube comments) to see how much the Generator effect will effect this motor design. Since it is failing to be a good Generator this could be a positive thing. I added a comment at the beginning of that post so this does not happen again.
.
You are also thinking that in this motor design the coil needs to overcome the magnets. This is not correct! ... in this design there is absolutely no magnet drag on the coil or any sticky spots. Generator effect and Eddy currents would be the only drag. However, I have a feeling it will work best at low frequency so Eddy currents should be minimal.

I hope you're right on your other comments

Luc