Brushless Homopolar N-Machine Idea ...

[CompuTutor]

The whole homopolar generator range of ideas
have always been real strong generators.

However the minimal voltage
and massive current is lost
in brushes and conductors.

Tesla took a wack at it
and settled on a conductive belt (As example).



So the exact point of my starting this new topic
is for all and any ideas that eliminate brushes.



I'll throw one in to start...



The dipole is the potential from the center of a disc
to the outer edge of the same (Spinning) disc
with the full disc face bathed in a magnet field.

Apparently the magnet need not spin with the disc BTW.



What if a heavy radial axle was the center conductor,
and it extended a fair distance from the disc initially.

Then from that (Extended) end of the axle
Just before the bearing (on the end of the shaft)
A heavy disc was brazed/welded on
that is the same size as the original disc
in that magnetic field.

Basically two identical sized disc's
placed on each end of a shaft
placed in just enough from the end
to leave room for high speed bearings.

Now...

From the edge of the generator disc
to the edge of the (Other) center conductor disc
you lay horizontal buss strips from one disc to the other
from disc edge to disc edge laterally.
(Like a hampster wheel as example)

Thin enough to allow the ideal
voltage verses current ratio
to produce the strongest magnetic field.

Those buss bar strips are now essentially
the (Energized) rotor poles of a generator.

The force to turn the disc
is not under Lentz's law of drag.

In theory no dynamic drag will occur
until you attempt to harvest that field.

The high current from the homopolar disc
should make a very strong field in the buss bars.

In fact a car engine starter rotor's pole busses
might be a fair match for the N-Machine's current.

And they are already manufacured for us.



OK,
now to run off the cliff with this idea...

What if BOTH discs had opposing N/S magnetic bath fields?

Would the current through the rotor pole busses double?

The magnet(s) can sit still also, right?



Basically,
if you can't catch the current for use because it is spinning,
then make what you want to use the current for spin too...

OK,
How bad is my idea so far ?
Did I run off the cliff yet ?

My idea can be eliminated fast with this one question.
The magnets have to cover the whole surface.
The (Current) path must be from the center to the edge.

Must the (Edge's) sample point
be stationary in relation to the disc?



Of course...
you could use buss bars that are to small,
and have a dandy heater (LOL)

[angryScientist]

Here is an idea. Use finger plates like those found in car alternators. The bad thing is it might affect the consistency of magnetism through the disk and reduce performance.

For the magnetic field your bus bars cant go strait from periphery to periphery. They have to go around a circle like a solenoid coil. (Left hand coil rule)

Here there are no opposing fields. Just one field, strait through so the current goes center to periphery, center to periphery then back to the start through the shaft. (Multistage optional)

Well, that was fun. I'm so tired. need sleep. bye bye....

[CompuTutor]

I check back fairly regularly,
but I'm not getting any bites.

Yes AngryScientist that's a good start.

But here is why I started this half-baked concept thread.

I have read that the point of contact cannot turn with the disc,
but I have never read of anyone actually CONFIRMING failure...

Gosh, a fairly sizable thin disc,
with a light draw LED would do.

Just spin it first and use test leads.

one to the shaft, one to the edge.

To make sure the disc is sufficient for the LED.

Then solder one lead to the edge,
the other as close to the center as practical.

Of all the reading I have done
one thing stands out more that all others.

The full area of the disc must be
bathed in the magnet's field.

So I guess that what I meant above
was solder the inner and outer lead
at what the inner and outer edges
of the ring magnet being used align at.

Even though spinning
it should be easy to see,
in a darkened room that is.

A success of any load while stationary (Edge brush),
of a load that can survive the spin of the second test
will tell me my idea has no merit.

Again, everyone "Says" it won't work everywhere,
but I'm asking someone with a few goodies handy
to CONFIRM it won't work please..., OK  

Thanks in advance

[Magluvin]

I am copying a post I wrote in another thread that I think works here also


I had a discussion of this elsewhere and thought of aluminum disks. I wonder if the voltage would be higher due to less resistance than copper.  But then maybe a copper ring to the outside for commutator as AL. would prob not be good there. Off topic for some, hard drive disks, are the coated with platinum? Those may be great for hho.

Being not many have delved into these devices, I would like to consider some facts that may not be true. Maybe the magnets can spin and the disk stay still. This would be a great advantage. It is very possible the very simple to be discouraged. That said, if I take my pulse motor coils and mount them to my rotor magnets, add a commutator and brushes, will it generate power if it spins? If the answer is no, then I would like to see some facts on that. Or come up with my own. =]
Is it possible that suppressive actions on this go all the way back to Faraday? Could it be that the paradox does not exist? If we had 10 of these in series, would the voltage add up to a very readily usable supply?
My Great Grand Father, With ties to Westinghouse AND posibly Tesla had 2 motors connected at the shaft and all wires went to a box with a switch, give it a spin and it never stops accelerating. The switch would have to be thrown.  My Grand Father told me of this many times. GGF was approached and threatened due to showings all over town, about 60 miles from Pitt. where Westinghouse and Tesla had done some work. GF said that he tossed the box and that was that. Later when GF, who was young when this all happened and did not realize the value of such, searched for that box, but could never find. But maybe GGF was as clever as Tesla. Maybe one of those motors was just internally different, or both.

Just food for thought.

Anyway, Im glad there are some here whom are willing to talk about this, and I am willing to hang in if you are. =]

Magluvin

[CompuTutor]

Maybe the magnets can spin and the disk stay still.

This I have seen an answer to.
The magnet can remain stationary.

Also, I have seen the spinning of only the magnet,
with the disc stationary.
Nope, no such luck, It doesn't work.

Now if both the brushes and magnet were spinning,
and the disc stationary...dunno...

If we had 10 of these in series, would the voltage add up to a very readily usable supply?

Yes, I have seen an arrangement of pairs of discs on same shafts.

All shaft segments were lined up axially, but electrically isolated.

The end disc of the first pair's edge brush,
would go the edge brush of the beginning disc of the next set.

So each pair of shared shaft discs double the yield initially,
then adding dual disc sets concurrently with insulated couplings
could be added until the desired voltage was obtained.

Dunno about the aluminum as a disc material though.

Magnets don't attract copper disc's,
yet they work non the less ...

I know the majority will say "Duh, of course"
as copper is used for coils too.

But this is a different animal we are experimenting with.
So the fact you can wind aluminum coils with success,
doesn't automatically mean it will work in this application.

A homopolar generator cannot actually be modeled
using Faraday's own law of electromagnetic induction
because the magnetic field is stationary for starters.

Then there is the point that the Faraday disc's conductive path
is parallel to the magnetic flux applied
and therefore encloses no magnetic flux.

I mean, try making a coil with conductive carbon graphite filament,
it just doesn't seem to make a darned thing magnetically
even tough you can clearly see current being measure with an inline shunt.

I think that is a clue to something we are all missing in my opinion...