EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.

[jeanna]

Jeanna:

Replace your copper with a carbon rod from a D size battery.  Not an alkaline but a bat. marked "heavy duty" regular one has the carbon rod.  I will bet you that this will increase the output without harm to your plant from the copper chemicals occurring during the reaction.

I am going to try this as soon as I am able to.

Bill

Hi Bill,

I have been finding some interesting things out as I search for soil metals and fertilizers etc.
One thing I thought was very interesting is that a healthy plant needs even more copper than magnesium!
I am wondering if we are getting sold a "bill of goods" with this common talk that copper is not good for plants or us. There is a healthy midpoint in all this because some copper is essential.
For me, a lot of this is a biology experiment.
Of course, it is not that for you or most others.

I am sure the carbon is fine here, but the copper oxide is so much more visible, I will wait to see the green.
As you probably remember, I got my best results in my outdoors EER's when I used some carbon welding rods someone gave me.. Also the spent carbon granules from a water filter gave me the very best voltage.
But, these 2 minerals (Cu and Mg) seem to be a pair that work together in living organisms.
I am wondering if there will ever be green copper oxide on the wire, or if it shows up, how long it will take.

The gutenberg project has that old battery book from the telephone experimenters of the 1800's. I remember Zn and Cu oxides being in a single doorbell battery and one was heavier than the other and so dropped to the bottom of the jar. As long as you kept one electrode higher than the other the reaction continued.
I remember wondering at the time if we could use some other metal as electrode after all the electrolyte had changed in this jar.
So, this is also a way for me to look into that idea.

None of this might end up being very good, but it has been over a week, and all I have needed to add was dolomite!
This is such a simple EER.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. I will see about that after I finish with the copper part.

jeanna

[jeanna]

This is an excerpt from the gutenberg book that so intrigued me.
This cell is called a closed circuit battery because it works better when it is in constant use!!!
See if you don't find this fascinating:
-------------------
Closed-Circuit Cells. Gravity-Cell:â€"Coming now to the consideration of closed-circuit or constant-current cells, the most important is the well-known gravity, or blue-stone, cell, devised by Daniell. It is largely used in telegraphy, and often in telephony in such cases as require a constantly flowing current of small quantity. Such a cell is shown in Fig. 64.

The elements of the gravity cell are electrodes of copper and zinc. The solution in which the copper plate is immersed is primarily a solution of copper sulphate, commonly known as blue-stone, in water. The zinc plate after the cell is in action is immersed in a solution of sulphate of zinc which is formed around it.

The glass jar is usually cylindrical, the standard sizes being 5 inches diameter and 7 inches deep; and also 6 inches diameter and 8 inches deep. The copper electrode is of sheet copper of the form shown, and it is partly covered with crystals of blue-stone or copper sulphate. Frequently, in later forms of cells, the copper electrode consists merely of a straight, thick, rectangular bar of copper laid horizontally, directly on top of the blue-stone crystals. In all cases a rubber-insulated wire is attached by riveting to the copper electrode, and passes up through the electrolyte to form the positive terminal.


The zinc is, as a rule, of crowfoot form, as shown, whence this cell derives the commonly applied name of crowfoot cell. This is essentially a two-fluid cell, for in its action zinc sulphate is formed, and this being lighter than copper sulphate rises to the top of the jar and surrounds the zinc. Gravity, therefore, serves to keep the two fluids separate.

In the action of the cell, when the external circuit is closed, sulphuric acid is formed which attacks the zinc to form sulphate of zinc Page 107 and to liberate hydrogen, which follows its tendency to attach itself to the copper plate. But in so doing the hydrogen necessarily passes through the solution of sulphate of copper surrounding the copper plate. The hydrogen immediately combines with the SO4 radical, forming therewith sulphuric acid, and liberating metallic copper. This sulphuric acid, being lighter than the copper sulphate, rises to the surface of the zinc and attacks the zinc, thus forming more sulphate of zinc. The metallic copper so formed is deposited on the copper plate, thereby keeping the surface bright and clean. Since hydrogen is thus diverted from the copper plate, polarization does not ensue.

The zinc sulphate being colorless, while the copper sulphate is of a dark blue color, the separating line of the two liquids is easily distinguishable. This line is called the blue line and care should be taken that it does not reach the zinc and cause a deposit of copper to be placed thereon.

As has been stated, these two liquids do not mix readily, but they will eventually mingle unless the action of the cell is sufficient to use up the copper sulphate as speedily as it is dissolved. Thus it will be seen that while the cell is free from polarization and local action, there is, nevertheless, a deteriorating effect if the cell is allowed to remain long on open circuit. Therefore, it should be used when a constant current is required.

[Pirate88179]

Jeanna:

That gravity cell info is very cool.  Thanks.

Below is quoted from our own Stefan Hartman back in November of 2007 in the original EB topic:

"But surely you will consume both rods and spoil the earth with it,so there will be dangerous copper salts and zinc saltsgoing into the soils, but I don?t know, how dnagerous they are...Probably not the zinc salts,but probably the copper salts.So don?t do this at a places where you draw water from a well  to drink."

Seems like a long time ago now.  Anyway, that is what I was remembering about the copper oxides being bad possibly.  Your chemistry knowledge far exceeds mine...actually, I have very little knowledge of chemistry.

I see what you are saying about your experiments.  It will be cool to see what happens.

Reading the beginning of that old topic really brought back some memories Jeanna.
I sure have come a long way since then I would say.  I know we all have but it is amazing to see how little I knew back then, ha ha.

I look forward to your results.

Bill

[Mk1]

@all

I just remembered something , and metal rust will help the galvanic effect but also heating it give some other type of galvanic structure, maybe better for plants.

The type of plants use will have a role in the galvanic effect , the soil it needs
will determine the acidic or alkaline structure of the battery , neutral ph plants should be detrimental to the galvanic action.

Potato battery anyone?

Great work everyone !

Mark

[jeanna]

CosmicGnarler at EF gave me this link yesterday and it fills in a lot of the gaps.

http://www.rexresearch.com/articles/elcultur.htm

At the bottom is a bit about pulsing with light.
I think I will make a jtc with a pot and a few red lights.
Later, I will make some with blue lights when I get some, and I will regulate the pulse length too.
I have been wanting to do this experiment for a while too, and I guess 'now's the time!'
Because how cool is this to have the plant making the electricity that is feeding it.
In the video panic in the cabbage patch at the end it shows how the plants could be connected to regulators to turn on water spigots and regulate light and heat, so I betcha this can happen automatically.
Oh this is way fun!

thanks,

jeanna
the cabbage patch video is an old tech video from russia in the 50's. It is amazing. Thanks to harpbloke for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy9eMT8ki94