Stepping Down a Wimshurst

[mscoffman]

Here is a link to the online book;

Modern High-Speed Influence Machines
circa 1922

http://ebook.lib.hku.hk/CADAL/B31428137/

There are entries for electrostatic motors and other stuff.

One of the primary applications back then was HV-DC powersupplies
for x-radiation tubes at 10->15KVdc. Electrons always emit x-rays
when then they decelerate. I wonder if anyone has ever done
an amateur radio QSO contact using a vacuum tube linear amplifier
powered by a Wimshurst machine HV power supply? This as opposed
to spark-gap transmitter which was popular way back then. These two
technologies didn't exist contemporaneously, but they form the
basis, I think, of the Testatika Machine function.

:S:MarkSCoffman

[gauschor]

Back to transforming down a Wimshurst (or in my case a Toepler Machine): I' have seen it work with small neon bulbs, but I still want usable power, even if it's only a LED. While directly putting an LED in between the spark gap of the 2 electrodes (but let remain a small spark gap!) the hardly visible flickering of the LED could have been a spark-discharge in the LED itself.


          sparkgap
|--------> <---------|
||                       ||
|| taker               || taker2
||                       ||
\/                       \/
o______disc_____o


While the sketch above is the default machine I changed now some things: I made the spark gap very small and and connected the other end of the spark gap with the top of the tesla coil (which has ~ 1600 windings as already said) and the end from "taker1" with the bottom of the coil. Around the Teslacoil I made a small ugly coil (hand made) with about the double diameter than the teslacoil. So it looked like this:
                               
            small coil
               s s s s s                Teslacoil
|--------OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-----|
|             s s s s s                                           |
|                                                                   |
|                                                                   |
|                                   small sparkgap        |
|                         |---------><----------------------|
||                       ||
|| taker1              || taker2
||                       ||
\/                       \/
o______disc_____o


On both ends of the small coil I connected the LED. Besides I completely removed the Leyden Jar, because it slowed down the spark frequency.

The result is: the LED brightened up significantly by the inducted current. It is still not very bright though, but definitely brighter than directly in between the big spark gap! Also I am pretty sure it is not a discharge within the LED itself. So I guess there has definitely taken place a transformation of the high voltage into something lower voltage, but with more current.

Also it seems that the high voltage likes the Tesla coil much more than the commonly wound coils. When trying to connect both cables to a common coil instead of the teslacoil, the LED could hardly get lit. Therefore Tesla is the way to go.

I am sure there is even more power to catch or transform. Well I'll keep you informed if I find out new things

Btw. I hate ASCII Art... , next time I will take a picture.

[mscoffman]

Very often they show using a fluorescent lamp lighting up
when touched to a Wimshurst HV supply. Surround the (CFL) lamp
with some solarcells. Those lamps are relatively efficient at
converting high voltage to light. Solar cells are <20% efficient
but you will get some DC current. Besides the auto ignition coil
(at about 30KV) this should work too.  Check out an auto parts
supplier for an auto ignition coil of type suggested in that "Emergency Light"
experiment by Inhotep, they are relatively low cost. Spark Gaps are inefficient
as sparks generally have to travel in both directions across the gap.

---

Here are some experimental calculations. This is for use with a Lord Kelvin
Water Dropper electrostatic generator (see Google). Lets say we can
generate 100microamps at 10 - 15KVdc. Lets say we build a simple
pump from a battery powered alarm clock mechanism to transfer water
back up to the top. Lets say that 100microamps runs the clock mechanism
but at 1.5VDC battery. While it's 100microamps in both cases there is 10K to 1
difference in voltage therefore the same difference in wattage. That's four
orders of magnitude ratio of potential difference for use in any conversion
inefficiency and mis-estimates I may have made in the calculations. So
this looks very doable to me.

:S:MarkSCoffman

[Foggy-Notion]

A quite visible snapping minature lightning bolt even once a second at 100,000+ volts is nothing to sneaze at. And that is the toys we're talking about. A larger one with 4' wheel would have much more power.
Or the smaller toy spinning much faster.

You can charge a battery bank with a 200' insulated wire, thrown up into a tree, with a spark plug on the other end. Connect that to an ignition coil used in reverse and then to the battery bank and ground.

Therefore I am sure a good size Wimshurst could do same, or better, and spins with ease so this is for sure
something that could operate on a wind up spring principle, or a sand bag weight hanging on a hook.

But the fact that it spins so resistance free means it can be machined to perfect ballance and put in a car,
geared quite high to the drive, with no real exra drag or work at all for the engine, yet spin as fast as a CD,
delivering quite a bit more than the hand cranked toys. It means charging batteries en route.
It means 1000+ miles for an electric car between charges, or possibly indefinite driving,

I've never heard about this idea, so I like to call it my own. ;op
Looks good on paper anyway, so does the same idea with a faraday disc, instead of a wimshurst.
Especially if an older analog ampmeter can help utilize the output? ...as Sparks seemed to suggest?
Some other statements caught my eye as well...



Quote:
"The currents in the spark gap can easily get to thousands of amperes
if a capactor spark gap and dead short are used. "

Reply:
What? Really? All originating with a wimshurst? If so, tell me more.



Quote:
"Transformers work with AC only but are non-contact primary to secondary"

Reply:
It is my understanding transformers will work with pulsed DC as well.
Including spiking DC, as from a joule thief, which is a form of pulsation.
Just needs some kind of collapsing field, right?


Quote:
"In other the primary user expects a magnetic echo and pays if the energy is intercepted
by something or anything. So an efficient transformer does "steal" power from it's primary winding."

Reply:
Yeah? Is suppressing free clean energy, confiscating equiptment and murdering inventors, stealing?
ok, just checking, so like all the electronic toys from distraction central are beaming EMF echos
through my body and through my walls, all day anyway, especially my minuture experimental enduction coil
apperatus, so, can they really be sure what the echo is, or for what purpose it's being made?

And if I send the AC to a rectifying DC maker then to a switch, which turns it on and off real fast,
to a long wire far from any grid wires, where at the end, be my primary and 5 induction secondaries,
well, ...what echo?



In any case, if I can pay for the echo, and then send my induction received juice to a battery bank.
then use that battery bank later to power a primary induction coil surounded by 5 secondaries and,
and what?

Power my primary with my battery bank and disconnect from the grid altogether. If they like that better.
Regardless, there must be 100 ways to make free electricity all day long, listed in this forum alone.

[gauschor]

The last couple of weeks I had to rebuild my Wimshurst/Toepler device multiple times and tried further experiments in order to achieve more power... I wished I could post success, but it didn't 

One thing I found out is that the Multimeter is somehow unusable in regards of measuring the Voltage - even though it is stepped down! To recall the construction for readers: I have a Teslacoil (1600 windings) which gets power via a small spark gap. The Teslacoil induces the power into a smaller coil of 50 windings. After that I put the received electric current into a bridge rectifier and attach an LED or the Multimeter on the outer ends.

The Multimeter shows confusing results with following settings:
maximum Voltage 250 V: Display shows ~200-300 Volts
maximum Voltage 200 V: Display shows ~20-30 Volts
maximum Voltage 20 V: Display shows ~1-3 Volts
maximum Voltage 2000mV: Display shows ~1400 mVolts

In fact I do not even know what I am measuring. One good thing however: the step-down process achieved that I have no spikes anymore causing the Voltmeter to hit 1000+ (which happens if directly connecting to the spark gap). The induced Voltage seems "stable". Also the induced Voltage seems to be on the "positive amplitude" only, so it is not an AC but somehow more like pulsed DC. Also I can put the LED directly on the ends of the smaller coil and get the exact same result as with the bridge rectifier.

The weird 300 Volts remember me of the Linden Experiment when Baumann achieved 700 Volts with his "sandwich". Maybe this was the same type of Voltage as the 300 Volts in here. It's not real Voltage it seems, more like a Frequency or some Mixture between Voltage and Frequency?  But in the end... what can you do with this result?

Although the LED is lit up on 1/3 brightness it is not enough to power anything else. You people were totally right. One cannot light up even a 1 Watt-bulb.
Oh wait, I nearly forgot: I can charge a small electrolyte capacitor, so probably it's possible to even recharge a small battery by a lot of handwork

I also built a transformer with 16.000 windings on the larger coil, however the resistance of the long wire caused the induced effect to be much weaker, therefore the LED darker, so not usable at all.

Oh yes.. one other thing: if you take the wire coming from the spark gap you can cut it in two, and put both ends in a cup filled with dry filtersand (the one you use for the swimming pool filters). The electrostatic charge will be transferred without loss obviously (at least withing a 5cm distance). I don't know if it helps anyone though... I just tried it out in hope maybe the crystal sand would oscillate and amplify the power :s

Sigh... that's it. To be honest, I am slowly giving up... The Methernita must have found a secret, something that is not that easy to disclose (as always with secrets). Any new input for experimentation?