Self running coil?

[gotoluc]

@Luc

BTW, did you attend a Thane Heins' Perepiteia demo about 2 years ago?
At the time he had recently got permission to set up his Perepiteia in a undergraduate EE lab. I was there and a few others along with a student reporter
from the university newspaper.

Yes Harry! I was there. So that is you

Nice to see you here

Luc

[gotoluc]

luc

That led test may not prove much. When you put the led on the mosfet, you are providing a new current path with the led that wasnt there before, and the leds brightness will be more at higher voltage of the output than the voltage produced by the sig input, kind of like a jt. I would not go any further to prove anything, in fact, I am thinking you can use a pickup coil to provide input to the mosfet to replace the signal gen. Maybe a variable res to match the pickups output to the fet.  And the phase relationship can be easily reversed to give proper pulse to the fet from the pickup.  ;]
This might be real easy.

Mags

Actually, Lindsay Mannix posted a great idea at the Overunity Research forum topic.

If the opto output is sourced from the storage caps, effective isolation WILL occour .

The storage cap voltage will have to be at 12 volts or so to be capable of switching correctly

The point is to entirely remove the probability that the drive is the source before getting too excited about the rest of it.
It doesnt matter why, just remove the variable.

So all I need now is to test the opto isolator I have on hand to see if they can handle these kind of switching frequencies.

This will have to wait for several days because of my son's visit.

Luc

[NextGen67]

Hi Luc,
Exactly what I noticed also. And the even better thing is, that *might* such happen, It does in no single way 'break' any law or interference with CoE.

It is just the Bloch Wall domains receiving an 'extra' kick from the magnet that is sitting there. At the end of the pulse, these domains will be 'shaken' for a while -at a rather high frequency- and the energy released from the *motion* of these domains *do* exit the coil.

Your pickup coil is collecting these, and as you mentioned before, most if not all the supplied energy put in the coil comes back in the Cap.

What is basically happening is that instead the magnet is moving, the domains inside the core do 'move', and by such cause [in combination with the magnet] an extra -short moment- of Additional Energy.

--
NextGen67

The magnets could be moving, or rather vibrating, but with an amplitude which is too small for you to see (or perhaps even feel?).

Luc: I agree HarryV this could be happening. At frequencies of 30KHz and over, movement would not be detectable.

Such could be indeed the case, however...

If the magnet would move/vibrate instead of the domains then [I think that]:

1) The [to receive] charge would go along the Y-ax [which means pick-up coil would be positioned wrong].
2) The core windings would [probably?] *not* have the effect [the cap charge back I mean here] that we notice now, because the magnet should have been positioned along the Z-ax in such a case, which would be very weird.

Which leads to a quick confirmation test:

When we place a small pick-up coil at the 'S' pole position, we would pick-up [considerable more] charge than what is being pick-up now(*), because *if* the magnet would move/vibrate, most of the charge would be able to receive at the magnet S and N pole.

(*) It is possible that when a small coil placed there, it *does* pick-up [a rather small] amount of charge, since the magnets field would [probably?] be affected by it's interaction with the core's domains [like see such as a Cemf, seen from magnet perspective!].  Also, actually Picking-up charge here *would* decrease what is being returned to the coil [and as such cap], because in *this* case the coils wire is being affected.

P.S.: Maybe someone could do a clean up of my quick copy and paste drawing?(**)

P.S.2: I wanted to make a similar drawing, but then seen from the coil [core] perspective, but since the wiring is not standard, I have trouble in seeing how such would be graphically represented... Maybe some of you here could draw up such ?

P.S.3:  It might become clear that if the magnet is placed TO near the coil, it's magnetic fieldwould pass the X-as border [the halve of the coil], which *could* reduce the effect [pick-up] we notice now. Also, placing an extra magnet [as shown in the drawing] might increase the effect we notice ?

P.S.4: The above description is not totally correct, as [small] parts of it *seem* to contradict Luc's scope results, but [at this point of time] to me, this seems a pretty close estimation of the effect we notice, and I have *indications* of why parts *seem* to contradict.

P.S.5: I do of course not argue about the fact that the magnet *its field* is vibrating.

(**) To ADD in the clean-up drawing:

Notice that we talk about a different than normal effect here... Normally (and it still does) the magnet interact with the coils wire, and in such influences with what is returned back into the coil [and in such cap]... However, the 2nd and greatly overlooked side effect [and *this* influences the pick-up coil(s)], is that charge seems to be radiated outwards of the coil [by means of magnetic field], which is at a 90 degree angle with the coils input energy... *This* also could be why the input and output energy do not inteference with each other, since they are not on the same phase.

Now, *if* the AE[Additional Energy] returned in the pick-up coil(s) would be *more* then what is being lost over the coil [and circuit] resistance, we could argue that this AE in, would in fact be enough to be able to redirect this AE energy back into the circuit, and we would have our first ever *confirmed* self runner.... However there are still a lot factors which might prohibit such.

--
NextGen67

[forest]

gotoluc

As you powered led with extra coil what stopped you from connecting led back to the gate of mosfet and closing loop then disconnecting function generator ?  Or using more pickup coils and power directly an oscillator chip driving mosfet ?

[wings]

I agree HarryV this could be happening. At frequencies of 30KHz and over, movement would not be detectable.

Luc

with a small mirror glued on the magnets and laser pointer you can amplify the vibration effect if exist .

great work!