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Overunity Machines Forum



GBluer(Slayer) Exiter

Started by slayer007, March 28, 2010, 09:26:54 PM

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0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

slayer007

My last test I let the Exciter run for 15 hours before turning it off.
The voltage in the battery was 1.1v after running 15 hours and lighting the 39 led's.

For this test I removed the Sgate and added an AV plug to the bottom of the second tower.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-MerBB2XCs

exnihiloest


What is discussed here is not new. It is related to "Avramenko's single wire transmission", known for years.
Whatever conductor, like the terminal of a neon or any piece of metal, possesses its own capacity, i.e it constitutes a capacitor, the other "plate" being the surrounding (ground, earth...)
Even though this capacity is very weak (<< 1pF), it loops the circuit, and the voltage can be enough to light a neon, or to charge a capacitor using a double diode configuration. Current is consumed. I have also experimented this way and measured such a current which obeys conventional Kirchoff's laws.
You can check it by connecting a piece of metal to the free neon terminal. It will change the intensity of light by increasing the parasitic capacity, thus the current.

This setup is typically a trap for newbies in electronics because they model it by neglecting what makes it to function!
"Light, and no current because the circuit is open! I get free energy!"  :D
False!  :(
In real life, the components are not punctual and they are not isolated from one another by light years distances. Even simple small pieces of wire are coupled by capacities or by induction and significant current can pass from one to another if the voltage and/or frequency is high enough.



allcanadian

@exnihiloest
QuoteWhat is discussed here is not new. It is related to "Avramenko's single wire transmission", known for years.
Whatever conductor, like the terminal of a neon or any piece of metal, possesses its own capacity, i.e it constitutes a capacitor, the other "plate" being the surrounding (ground, earth...)
I would agree in a general sense but you have used the terminology in such a way that it makes no sense whatsoever. For instance a piece of metal cannot possess it's own capacity as what we call capacity refers to energy in the form of an electric field between two things measured in volts/cm. The voltage refers to the relative difference in the charged state of the two things thus the capacity is not intrinsic to the metal object but everything else having a charged state which is different from the metal object as well. In most cases this is not the ground or earth but the air surrounding a metal object which contains water vapor. Most of your assumptions will only hold true if the circuit is grounded which I have found is a very good way to lower efficiency.

QuoteEven though this capacity is very weak (<< 1pF), it loops the circuit, and the voltage can be enough to light a neon, or to charge a capacitor using a double diode configuration. Current is consumed. I have also experimented this way and measured such a current which obeys conventional Kirchoff's laws.
In fact the "capacity" can be very large as it relates to the difference between two charged states and the distance between them, capacity cannot be weak nor strong, and does not have a requirement to "loop" any circuit. For instance if I charge a length of conductor then what we call the "voltage" in any given space relates to the charged state of the conductor and any other point in space which includes both conductors and insulators. The capacitance is then a ratio of the relative charged state of the conductor to the magnitude of the electrical field produced by it in a relative sense to everything else.
As well I do not understand this concept of "Current being consumed" as an electric current is the result of a change in the relative difference between two charged states or for the sake of simplicity the motion of charges due to a change in charge density. As such "current" cannot be consumed as the current is simply a measure of something, how can a measurement of relative motion be consumed? In fact the only thing which has occurred is that the charge imbalance has returned to ambient conditions, nothing is consumed.

QuoteThis setup is typically a trap for newbies in electronics because they model it by neglecting what makes it to function!
"Light, and no current because the circuit is open! I get free energy!"  :D
False!  :(
In real life, the components are not punctual and they are not isolated from one another by light years distances. Even simple small pieces of wire are coupled by capacities or by induction and significant current can pass from one to another if the voltage and/or frequency is high enough.
This setup can be a trap for experts as well especially when they start making assumptions based on conventional wisdom. You forgot to mention the little fact that if the rate of change of charge density on a conductor is sufficiently high then a wave like disturbance may result which propogates away from the source which produced it and becomes independent from it. In this case the conductor acts more like a point charge than a conductor and most everything you have mentioned falls apart as it does not apply.
Regards
AC
Knowledge without Use and Expression is a vain thing, bringing no good to its possessor, or to the race.

exnihiloest

Quote from: allcanadian on December 08, 2010, 02:07:42 PM
...
For instance a piece of metal cannot possess it's own capacity...

False.
In physics, it is considered that at an infinite distance we have no charge: the electric field is zero.
Thus if a single body is charged, it is possible to calculate its capacity and it is easy to do it if its geometry is regular, the simplest being a sphere.

For example consider an isolated conducting sphere having a charge Q.
Electric field at infinity: Ei=0
Electric field at the surface of the sphere: Es=Q/(4*π*ε0*r2) where r is the radius.

The potential difference U being the integral of the field, we just have to integrate Q/(4*π*ε0*r2) along any path between r and infinity, which gives: U=Q/(4*π*ε0*r).
To derive the capacity C of this isolated sphere is straightforward:
C= Q/U = 1/(4*π*ε0*r).

In layman terms, any conducting body is to be considered as the central electrode of a capacitor whose the other electrode is a conducting sphere surrounding the first one at an infinite distance.
In conclusion: a single isolated body possesses a capacity and it is the reason of the effect that we observe here. The "free" neon terminal conducts the current to the surrounding through this capacity. The surrounding is to be understood as all the conducting matter around it such the cases of other devices at a ground potential or the ground itself, which in fact is much nearer than infinity, meaning that the real capacity is more than that calculated by the preceding method, increasing the effect.

Quote
As well I do not understand this concept of "Current being consumed" as an electric current is the result of a change in the relative difference between two charged states or for the sake of simplicity the motion of charges due to a change in charge density. As such "current" cannot be consumed as the current is simply a measure of something, how can a measurement of relative motion be consumed?

"A current is consumed" means that, in order to maintain the current, you have to provide energy. It is just a way of speaking. It means that the energy of flowing electrons is used (for example for heating a resistance).
In our particular case, energy is needed to provide the current to replenish the energy that the neon is consuming for light (+ the losses).



exnihiloest

Quote from: allcanadian on December 08, 2010, 02:07:42 PM
...
You forgot to mention the little fact that if the rate of change of charge density on a conductor is sufficiently high then a wave like disturbance may result which propogates away from the source which produced it and becomes independent from it. In this case the conductor acts more like a point charge than a conductor and most everything you have mentioned falls apart as it does not apply.
Regards
AC

I don't forget this point, I have it always in mind, I spoke elsewhere about it.
When dimensions of conductors and distances between them are short in comparison to the wavelength associated with the highest frequencies of the involved signals, the radiated EM energy is negligible and we can take the hypotheses of the quasi-stationary state approximation.
It is the case here thus this point is not relevant.