Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !

[h2ocommuter]

This is outstanding work, Very compotent engeeniiring and thoughfullness in conception and aproach.
As stated before, controling the gas is of primary importance.
Noted, Roy M, Bob B, Stanley M. all were able to achieve this same goal through modulation of the rate gas is produced and utilized. therein.  Great work!

I hope this can shed some light on the efficiency of these Anton cells. I have built many different kinds of cells.

When testing each cell I allways run the calculations through these spreadsheet to see how the cell stacks up to the maximum Faraday.

Any cell that approaches 100% is outstanding. Any cell structure that overcomes Maximum Faraday is Better than 99.99% of all cells ever built.

Please save a copy for your testings.

I did not build either of these calculators I only applied them in my own fancyfull arrangement.

h2ocommuter

[vrand]

They said "cheap China engine" as a detriment. Aside from that, think about the energy balance. Compression has to come at a cost. If it's to be a self-sustaining device the only source will be that gas mixture coming from the electrolysis. Nothing else. If the mixture, including all that proportion coming from air isn't thermally efficient enough, that is, more than what it's known to be, all that talk of OU is just a pipe dream. And here's where the study of the thermal efficiency of the gas kicks in, prior to using it further in engines and such. That step is unavoidable, especially given the overall low efficiency of motors (motor, then generator, then electrolysis, forget it).

Here is the genset they used. At $140 euro its inexpensive, compared to spending the time & money having to build a new separate test rig to test high voltage and high pressure of the HHO gas and air mix.

This is also an OHV engine which is more efficient than a typical B&S push rod engine 

Syncron generator 230V
with Automatic Voltregulierung (AVR)

small and light, for lighting and other applications

Power Output:
Peak power: 1200w (1.2 KVA)
Rated power: 1000w (1.0 KVA)
Unions: 230V/50Hz and 1x 12V DC
with Voltmeteranzeige
Protection class: IP23

Engine:
Maximum power 2.8 hp
Capacity 84cm ³
Cooling air cooling
Engine type 4 stroke, OHV
Tank capacity 5.5 liters
Oil volume 0.4 liters
Oil level warning yes
65db volume in 7 meters distance


Pull start Yes
Last about 10 hours on one tank

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.holzer-spalter.de/wbc.php%3Fsid%3D705684a69b4%26tpl%3Dproduktdetail.html%26pid%3D46%26rid%3D11%26recno%3D5&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhifVp5q0oIgxjT9UiyWTWLyiTj02w

Regards, Mike R.

[Omnibus]

Here is the genset they used. At $140 euro its inexpensive, compared to spending the time & money having to build a new separate test rig to test high voltage and high pressure of the HHO gas and air mix.

This is also an OHV engine which is more efficient than a typical B&S push rod engine 

Syncron generator 230V
with Automatic Voltregulierung (AVR)

small and light, for lighting and other applications

Power Output:
Peak power: 1200w (1.2 KVA)
Rated power: 1000w (1.0 KVA)
Unions: 230V/50Hz and 1x 12V DC
with Voltmeteranzeige
Protection class: IP23

Engine:
Maximum power 2.8 hp
Capacity 84cm ³
Cooling air cooling
Engine type 4 stroke, OHV
Tank capacity 5.5 liters
Oil volume 0.4 liters
Oil level warning yes
65db volume in 7 meters distance


Pull start Yes
Last about 10 hours on one tank

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.holzer-spalter.de/wbc.php%3Fsid%3D705684a69b4%26tpl%3Dproduktdetail.html%26pid%3D46%26rid%3D11%26recno%3D5&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhifVp5q0oIgxjT9UiyWTWLyiTj02w

Regards, Mike R.

I understand what you're saying but, as you can see, they cannot run it for a longer period and they blame it on the cheap junk they're using. Of course, nothing beats a self-sustaining demo, if it's correctly done. On the other hand, rigorous scientific study of the evolved gases is something unquestionable, it does not depend on the efficiencies of the motors, no matter how perfect they are, it doesn't depend on other technicalities used as excuse. It is straightforward and no wonder people go along that route rather than jump into the unstudied territories of trying to build devices based on faith. Rigorous calorimetric studies will resolve promptly and conclusively any doubt one way or the other. That's the scientific approach, building motors based on faith is the garage-genius approach which may or most likely may not work but maybe it's fun to tinker. All power to them if they enjoy it and especially if it happens to bring results. It's methodogically flawed but, hey, if they really demonstrate a self-sustaining device who cares.

[vrand]

I understand what you're saying but, as you can see, they cannot run it for a longer period and they blame it on the cheap junk they're using. Of course, nothing beats a self-sustaining demo, if it's correctly done. On the other hand, rigorous scientific study of the evolved gases is something unquestionable, it does not depend on the efficiencies of the motors, no matter how perfect they are, it doesn't depend on other technicalities used as excuse. It is straightforward and no wonder people go along that route rather than jump into the unstudied territories of trying to build devices based on faith. Rigorous calorimetric studies will resolve promptly and conclusively any doubt one way or the other. That's the scientific approach, building motors based on faith is the garage-genius approach which may or most likely may not work but maybe it's fun to tinker. All power to them if they enjoy it and especially if it happens to bring results. It's methodogically flawed but, hey, if they really demonstrate a self-sustaining device who cares.

Yea, they took off the throttle valve and carburetor body, just like Roy McAlister recommended in his videos, but now only need to control the HHO gas input somehow. Roy used a tank of H2 and fed the engine on 5 psi of H2.  Feeding HHO from their cells can fluctuate the HHO output gas (adding more or less amps) as well as the engine fluctuating when going from Idle to Full load.

They said that they ran the engine on Idle for hours to heat their office from the exhaust heat!   That makes sense, when there is no adding or subtracting loads to fluctuate the engine RPM, and when they created a steady state production of HHO from their cells (as Roy M. recommends).

They got VERY lucky hitting the right cell/gas/air/engine combination setup to get the engine to Idle for hours and also powering a load for 40 seconds.  Now its just a simple matter of valving the gas to meet the loads added to the engine.

They are 95% to 99% there.  

To start over and build a calorimetric setup could set them back months and lots of time and money. Or to design a new engine, or wait for someone to build a perfect engine could also take months to years.

They hit the jackpot and I say keep on going with what you got 

Best regards, Mike R. 

[Omnibus]

No, you try to make it appear it will take them months to do the obvious. On the contrary, they can assess the current efficiency right away. They even showed a video to that effect but it wasn't clear what exactly they got there. If the current efficiency, prior to making the gas-air mixture is as expected then the only possibility for anything unusual (OU) is the thermal efficiency of the mixture to be greater than expected and that can also be measured right away. If that's also as expected then, forget it, there's nothing to it and what we're seeing is due to trivial  causes. I'm not saying to abandon what they have but it isn't conclusive. Obviously, they'll continue excusing themselves for that inconclusiveness with the cheap Chinese motor, lack of funds and what not while they can take the bull by the horns and promptly demonstrate unusual current efficiencies and/or caloric values of the fuel. Everything else is beating around the bush and prolonging a potential agony. Other areas of OU research are showing similar signs due to various reasons.