Tesla , the NS files , Cosmos Pump ...

[the_big_m_in_ok]

Questions...(i'm not expert in any of this...)
1) what is field geometry for pancake coil look like?
2) anyone using ferrites to inhibit or modify magnetic field geometries?

Can you use iron oxide filings from, say, beach sand to show you the electromagnetic fields?

--Lee

[Pirate88179]

There is a great video on Youtube somewhere where a guy takes a bottle of mineral oil (it may have been baby oil, it was thick and clear anyway) and mixes in very fine iron filings.  He shows where this give you a 3-D view of the magnetic fields.  It looks like it worked pretty well.  It was in a clear bottle and you could plainly see them.

Bill

[MW383]

Can you use iron oxide filings from, say, beach sand to show you the electromagnetic fields?

--Lee

Yes I was thinking along these lines. If one were to look at a hobbyist tesla coil design, a simple tubular secondary of smaller diameter resides above the pancake. These obviously function well in this application. It leads me to believe the created field from primary and the physical secondary coil occupy the same real estate. tesla wouldn't have done anything non-optimal...

[MW383]

TEST RESULTS = FAILURE:
It would appear that pancake coils (air coils) see use in high frequency applications. While these coils are cool and efficient at what they do, I'm having thoughts that they may not be ideal for earth batteries of useful power. My induction cooker obviously has this coil and so does tesla coil, both high frequency devices. NO worthwhile ground observations made with my experimentation, NONE. All wrong for NS !! I am not convinced about proper frequency yet. I tend to drift into the 'we need low frequency' line of thinking and one resonant with earth.

So, how will we get lots of power out of an NS battery? The primary coil has to be the conduit as it is HIGH AMP capable, no mA's. I cannot imagine these batteries operating the things they supposedly did with secondary coil power alone. Maybe I am wrong? So we either need one hell of a lot of magnetism, or one hell of a lot of power in this system somehow.... Standing alone, the NS replications have and always will have low power from electrochemistry alone, thus a weak magnetic field produced in primary, and probably a negligible amount of power tapped off a secondary. And this is all it will ever be. I see various switching methods being employed. This = right direction in general.

Option 1 = magically capture magnetism from outside the battery and somehow use it to increase field of primary in dramatic fashion, thus allowing more rugged secondary construction of high power, thus power heavy devices. This is a foolish thinking....

Option 2 = use earth magnetism for resonance purposes only (in the coil switching mechanism). Therefore, get primary coil cycling with Earth frequency exactly. Local field around battery stronger than earth's. Since everything is on the same channel so to speak, Earth will respond electrically in order to balance the equation. Remember, even a weak primary field of NS battery is still way-way stonger than earth magnetics. I suggested all of this a long time ago in another forum. This is where electrochemistry of NS battery comes into play, and most importantly - those heavy guage windings in the primary. What you have here is an electron pump. And one that pulls electrons from outside the system and from an environment that is full of them (EARTH). Power taken from primary = way more Amps which is typically needed for heavy devices, especially those in NS's time. Theoretically, one could start NS battery and it would initially have a low output. This output should increase in time though with the upper limit being established by primary coil construction. The power has to come from somewhere, I do not believe in magic...sorry. Lots and lots of electrons in the earth. We need these! A better option....

So new direction: Build NS coil and for starters, artificially drive it at real low frequencies. Battery to be earth buried, no tabletop operation. A variable resistor should be able to be used within a circuit of sorts to get things to real low Hz. Battery should take off according to theory. Ideally, electronics should be thrown away and replaced with a simple circuit that directly interfaces with earth's resonance, and even if it is slightly variable in nature (somehow)... It needs to always follow along. This thinking tends to harmonize with ground radio. Stubblefield was using naturally occuring low frequencies as a carrier. Hence it was possible to theoretically transmit through the ground long distances provided the signal was there to use and piggy back on. Seems like rocks and weak electromatic waves don't get along. So there would be limitations... Through water aspects are interesting. Modern ELF probably differs very little from what Stubblefield was doing.... Look at simple copper and iron rods put in ground. Everyone has done this at one time or another. Has anyone considered how cool it is to have an electrochemical cell function this way? I myself did this at a 50ft distance and viola...voltage and small currents. Hence, Tishitang's former postings employing resonant circuits and accompanying ground rods is probably very valid thinking. It is these rods that we need to use in order to get primary coil firing at correct rate...

Further experiments could be made with above ground antennai linked into NS system. Me need to read more on this. Looks good though....

Have also thought a lot about general construction of NS battery. I think simple iron core of proper proportions good enough. No need for exotic materials as we need high strength field capability at real low frequencies. NS made it work, so can we. Perhaps a fancy version of this would be bundled core like on Bedini motors but I obviously can't comment on any advantages with this. I have my own source of cotton insulated copper wire, so no big deal here. I even have the option to have done locally out of non-degradeable but still water permeable materials if I wanted to get fancy (I just might too because my local guy has modern equipment that lays in a real nice cross woven pattern via 10 supply spindles : shorting with local material should be near impossible). I'm from battery industry originally so my choice for core and between layer 'insulator' will be battery grade seperator material. I'm after proper electrolytic pathways here and battery grade seperator material premium for this. After that I will make an effort at a clean construction. Maybe I build a secondary. If I do it will be optimized/stacked disc construction. I expect proper running NS battery to be a noisy/buzzy/vibrating thing. Thus having a bolt design could be useful in keeping construction from vibrating itself apart. Seems like a damp Stubblefield battery = way to go and not totally flooded one. This seems plausible because more oxidation occurring in something only slightly damp. When current abilities of this thing realized, I would not expect too much electrode degredation because I expect a majority of electrons to be pulled in from earth and not produced by internal chemistry. Internal chemistry there just to facilitate the process and provide a electrochemical potential. Think of things in these terms. What do you do when a rechargeble battery goes dead. You recharge it. Think of NS battery in same terms only having alternate electron source.... I have mentioned all of these things before... Bottom line, NS had no crazy electronics. Just crude devices that operated on principle.

[MW383]

Whoa.....A new concept has emerged. Faintly hinted at here and there. I'm not sure why those making certain hints didn't just come out with things in plain fashion. I think they must be in on it... It is either that or they too failed to see the entire field. No matter...

At any rate, it is clearly time to build. I was thinking about certain coil aspects backwards / and in mainstream concepts. This is totally incorrect. I now see just how unique this system is. It is so different that I cannot accurately predict what its actual behavior would be beyond the basics, hence it is build time.