New Half Working Idea!

[Tenbatsu]

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[mr_bojangles]

wouldn't 2 weights balance each other out and remove the momentum from 12 to 6 o'clock

obviously i dont know your set up, but i picture the weight being locked in place and upon 6 o clock being relased-while tethered to the axle- using the momentum of the weight, it continues upward, restricted by the string, and loops aroung the axle similar to a tether ball


this is a shot in the dark, but thats what i got out of your description

looking forward to seeing designs


edit to add:::::::::::


although now that i think about it, if the moment the first weight gets released at 6, and the other is at the 12, it could start its descent without being balanced

[Alexioco]

A friend is fixing the virus now, thanks for the links

I am going to give a description of the way the forces work but for now I want to keep the way it achieves it to myself for the moment. The reason I want to keep it to myself for the moment is because its a new principle and once known, a good understanding would soon be gained of it (which is good) but I would probably get nothing in return. I want to at least try and make it myself first, then if I fail, then I will open source it completely here with you all for us all to have an attempt to improve with each others help.

The following description is the principle of it but without revealing a/the mechanism. Once you have read this, it will be possible for one to design a mechanism after thinking about how to achieve it based soley on the following principle.

Description of Principle:

Two equal weights connected via a slidable crossbar through the axle of rotation. The weight at 12 O'clock is at the rim of the wheel and the second weight is at 6 O'clock but under the axle of the wheel. The weight at 12 O'clock overbalances the weight near the axle and swings right down to the bottom at 6 O'clock. The energy/momentum gained from that drop is harnessed independently of the wheels rotational velocity meaning that the weights along with the wheel continue to rotate around the axle with full velocity as the weights at the same time lift themselves vertically up at the 6 o'clock position via this "special prime force" gained from the momentum.  Centrifugal force lifts the weights up the rest of the way with more power needed to even perpetuate it. 

If the weight dropped from 12 to 6 O'clock and the wheel was forcibly stopped just as the weight reached 6 O'clock, the weights would still lift up at least half of the way to the axle because as I said above, the lifting of the weights for the first half of the lift is independent of the wheels velocity although the energy comes from the momentum gained from the drop. Its basically using one force "momentum" in two independent ways so after the weights have lifted over half way up, centrifugal force which was preserved at its full while the weights lifted  can lift the weights up the rest of the way. The prime force is what causes the weights to lift and that force is also determined by the momentum gained from 12 to 6 O'clock.

I have nearly finished the mechanism. I'm using one single weight to test that the prime force works as it should. But I cannot complete it correctly for certain reasons which I cannot say here. I have however tested the prime force in a slightly different way and it does indeed lift the weight up into the axle without costing the rotational velocity of the wheel. Its an extremely simple mechanism, but difficult to get working because of the state of the materials needed which is more than I dare say lol.

It could take time before i manage to "tune" my mechanism in, but once I do, then ill add the second weight and see if it perpetuates or not. If it does not perpetuate, then I know something must be wrong with the construction as it is self evident how it should operate. If however the principle does not work, then ill still post the idea as you will like its originality and many more ideas can sprout from it.
But from what I have posted, tell me if you think it should perpetuate from that principle. If the weights can lift half way up into the axle via this prime force without costing the rotational velocity, then centrifugal force can lift the weights up easily the rest of the way in order to reset itself.

Opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Alex

[Alexioco]

It seems now to me, to perpetuate a wheel, its not about making a mechanism that creates force, but about harnessing the forces that are already there, that's why the mechanism is so simple, because you have to just harness the forces at the correct time to perpetuate it. Those forces are present once the wheel has started to turn.... I might be wrong with all of this, but it seems to be looking good at the moment. To be honest, I could do with working with someone on this then after present it on here as to get the wheel to perpetuate, it needs to be "tuned" in and better understood so i can get the best performance out of it.

Alex

[Sprocket]

I have no doubt that Bessler succeeded in perpetuating his wheels and that many others have done likewise in the interim.  As you alluded, the trick seems to be to derive the power-to-perpetuate from forces other than the prime-driver, gravity - CF for example.  The Almighty Tesla stated as much in one of his essays/lectures. (sorry, operating form memory, don't have a quote)

And perpetual-mobiles don't need to violate COE laws either - take the Minto Wheel, known about since the 70's, simple to construct, undoubtedly works, no COE violations, and perpetual as long as the sun shines.  So how come it never went into production?  It seems that it's not just COE-offenders that are suppressed...

btw, no idea where you're going with this - my brain needs to be thrown a much bigger bone before synapses start firing!