The downfalls of conventional electrolysis - and how to fix them

[WilbyInebriated]

here is the scientific explanation chet: brief guide to sonoluminescence

tell milehigh to quit making assumptions based upon a youtube video...

[ramset]

Thanks wilby
We'll take a look!!

They say trolls taste like chicken !:}
{something every "Mantis" knows]

@ All ,got this From iquant

Have a look at the following paper when you get some time.
Ultrasonically-excited electrolysis Experiments at Energetics
Technologies: 
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DardikIultrasonic.pdf

Experimental results and discussion of 3 electrolysis cells with built in ultrasonic transmitters to induce cavitation in the electrolyte.
A significant amount of excess heat was generated and a very large COP was obtained in several experiments.
Largest excess power: 34 watts
Largest excess energy: 3.5MJ
Largest COP: 3000%
Longest duration of excess heat in a single experiment: 40 days

[ramset]

Gotta read this folks!
Wilby's link

http://physics.open.ac.uk/~swebb/briefguide.htm
Chet

[ramset]

Well, well, well
A surprise "TOP Shelf" entry into the fray!!
"AllCanadian "
This is VERY COOL!!

Post from here
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=399.msg6577;topicseen#msg6577


Re: Mookie's Electrolyser Accelerator
« Reply #99 on: Today at 16:32:53 »   

@FarrahDay

Quote
At this stage I'm honestly unsure as to whether or not the bubbles in Mookie's viideo are simply pockets of water vapour that evolve due to the breaking of the water tension which is creating low pressure areas within the liquid, but it does seem rather odd that a certain threshold needs to be reached before this happens.

Allcanadian
Responce,

Cavitation would certainly go someway to explaining a lot of past claims, but it still remains to be shown that the gases are hydrogen and oxygen or free radicals rather than just bubbles of water vapour.
I would agree, the only facts we have at the moment is the fact that we have none as such I have put a few other builds on hold and begun putting this device together as we speak. I seem to have this compulsive and somewhat childish need to build damn near everything I am uncertain about which keeps me on my toes I guess. Im not entirely sure cavitation is occuring here but we will know one way or another soon enough.
Regards
AC

[iquant]

Here is a link to an interesting published scientific paper:
An Investigation on the Net Charge on Gas Bubbles Induced by 0.75 MHz under Standing Wave Condition
http://www.jtaphys.org/archive/Volume2/Number2/4.pdf

Sonoluminescence has been attributed by some authors to compression of gas inside collapsing acoustically induced cavities (or even to pulsation violent stable cavities). This adiabatic compression is believed to raise the temperature of the gases by up to 10,000 K which radiate in the visible spectrum. An alternative explanation has been proposed by others as: the changes in charge density on bubble surface during compression leads to electrical discharge (in microscopic scale) and they believe to that this process causes emission of light from the cavity. In this work we report on the measurement of the net charge induced acoustically on the bubble by means of the motion of bubbles in distilled water while an external electric field applied. The motion of the bubbles is recorded on a photographic film during 1 second exposure hence the stationary bubbles appear as points and moving bubbles as lines. The radius of the bubble and hence the bubble charge can be estimated from the velocity of bubble provided by the length of the line.

The photographs and conclusion were on point with claims that cavitating bubbles have a negative charge except in their discussion they appear to question their results...

I'm finding more and more recent papers regarding microbubble cavitation phenomena both in the scientific and medical communities (ultrasonic lipo and body sculpting).

Potential of Microbubbles in Aqueous Solutions: Electrical Properties of the Gasâˆ'Water Interface
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jp0445270

This study investigated the potential of microbubbles in aqueous solutions and revealed that the bubbles were negatively charged under a wide range of pH conditions. The potential was positive under strong acidic conditions, and the inorganic electrolytes decrease the potential by increasing the amount of counterions within the slipping plane. OH- and H+ are crucial factors for the charging mechanism of the gasâˆ'water interface, while other anions and cations have secondary effects on the potential, because counterions are attracted by the interface charge.

Evidence that ultrasonically-induced microbubbles carry a negative electrical charge:


The abstract states they estimate the field to be about 7 × 105 V mâˆ'1

Unfortunately, this is all new territory for me forcing me to resort to the Chet-n-paste method to articulate:

SWAG on the chemistry is courtesy of Farrah Day:

2Na + 2H2O = 2NaOH + H2

While the hydrogen rises out of the solution, the sodium hydroxide produced will remain in the water forming ions 2Na+ and 2OH-.
Now of course, because this seems to be unknown territory, the chemistry is somewhat unclear and very debatable, but consider this scenario.

A head on collision between a sodium ion Na+ and a hydroxyl ion, OH-… what would happen? What if the energy of the collision was such that the sodium ion temporarily took the electron from the hydroxyl ion?

Na+ + OH- = Na + H + O

Or balanced in favor of molecular gases

2Na+ + 2OH- = 2Na + 2H + 2O

In this scenario we now have highly reactive pure sodium metal in the water, which will instantly react with a water molecule to form sodium hydroxide and in doing so release more hydrogen.

2Na + 2H2O = 2NaOH + H2

The sodium will always remain in the solution, but the water content will gradually reduce as it is dissociated and evolves as gases.

The process outlined above relies on the sodium ion collecting an electron from somewhere in order to become an atom.
There are no electrodes from which to do this and we know anyway that H3O+ reacts ahead of Na+ in a normal electrolyser, so it would have to be taken from a â€"ve ion already within the solution.

My SWAG is this -ve ion comes from ultrasonically induced cavitation of micro bubbles. 

Maybe instead of electrolysis we might be able to produce H2 by inducing the Na - H20 exothermic reaction by ultrasonic agitation of super saturated NaOH.  No electrolysis, no magnetic induction.. just low power ultrasonic transducers...

Of course this is all just SWAG for now...  Thought I'd throw this out for discussion and feedback before rolling up my sleeves.