Ronald Classen's H2O Motor Project

[rlm555339]

Dave,

I have trouble viewing your website.  In 3 browsers (I.E., Netscape, and Opera) I get inactive buttons and the "main" page says UNDER CONSTRUCTION, KEEP CHECKING BACK or something like that.  I did manage to access the page on an individual basis using no frames.

Aluminum consumes a lot of energy when it is made so using it as a source of fuel makes no sense to me.  This is why I stayed away from that material.  It also makes a huge mess.  As far as I can determine from what I read, aluma-ti has titanium in it.  They call it aluminized but I am not sure that is actually referring to aluminum.  Maybe someone on this list with knowledge in alloys can answer that.  I can't.  I did try using baking soda once with the aluma-ti and it didn't seem to harm it any but that isn't an acid.  Baking soda leaves a white residue also.

Kane,

I am intrigued by that quasiturbine.  It looks like a complicated device that might require periodic maintenance but if it works, that's just part of the game, I suppose.  I wonder how much one would cost?  Didn't see anything on there about that.

[pres]

Kane wrote: ""A Must for Hydrogen
In order to do work on a piston, the fuel-air mixture needs to burn at a speed faster than the piston is moving. Low hydrogen flame speed is a disadvantage shared with most other gaseous fuels. For comparison, a gasoline-air mixture has a flame front speed that ranges typically from 70 up to 170 feet/second in IC engines, while an ideal hydrogen-air mixture has a flame front speed of about 8 feet/second. An average vehicle engine rotating at 2,000 rpm (33 revolutions per second) produces piston linear speed of 45 feet/second in the middle-stroke, which is already 5 times faster than the hydrogen flame front speed ! The fact that a hydrogen-air mixture has a flame front speed of about 1/10? that of a gasoline-air mixture, contributes to explain why hydrogen engines only run at reduced power and low rpm under load. However, the photo-detonation mode is extremely rapid and totally removes this limitation. This is why the detonation mode (not compatible with piston, but with the Quasiturbine) is critical for the future of the hydrogen engine. http://www.quasiturbine.com/ETheoryDetonationEngine.htm"

Wow, thats EXACTLY the opposite of what I've read and experienced:
Hydrogen flame front propagation is around 8x faster than gasoline!
ref: ? http://www.gotrice.com/users/shige/kataguruma/sc/too/67.html
"If the fuel is injected at the same place as for ram jet operation, the burn would take place after exiting the nozzle, so the solution has been to use hydrogen and in some programs air itself. The rate of burn with hydrogen is much faster than HC fuels, so the burn is contained and the result is thrust on nozzle exit."
..
? http://nz323.allhell.com/petrol.html
" A 12:1 CR gasoline engine at 1500 rpm would have a flame speed of about 16.5 m/s, and a similar hydrogen engine yields 48.3 m/s, but such engine flame speeds are also very dependent on stoichiometry."
..
? http://www.pillard.com/alt_fuels.html
" Hydrogen flames are invisible but propagate close to the gas burner orifice as the flame front velocity is about 10 times higher than for other fuel gas types."
..
? Wiseman (Water Torch) says about 8x faster.
I believe that is closer, based on our (unsophisticated) testing.

Ron should retard his B&S test engine to at least 45deg ATDC (or more). It will run better.
The 'exhaust' won't exhaust anything when running hydroxy, it will suck!
That is because after a flash expansion, the mixture contracts to less than 1/1000 of original volume.
That sort of volume reduction causes his "ice cold" exhaust.

The plus side; at least he is trying something and gaining knowlege each time.
Pres

[KSW]

yes - thinking about it now, i dont know why i didnt realise that.

i guess this is a lesson - always do your homework 

[h2o2go]

Pres
Interesting input.? What you are saying seems to be more in line with what I have experienced.? I find myself doing tuning "things" to slow down the flame front when fueling with H₂.?
I am not sure about "detonation" as opposed to flame propogation for combustion either. My back ground is automotive - sounds like yours is turbines.? Detonation in an ICE can be caused by many things but typically, a hot spot causes a second flame front which collides with the first. Most modern engines have minimized that by smoothing combustion chambers, etc.? I would bet even B&S has done some of that to get there engines to run on unleaded. The predominant cause of detonation in modern engines is combustion temperatures exceeding 2500 ^oF. At around that temp Nitrogen combusts.(air is 78% Nitrogen). This is an oversimplified explanation of NO_x Emissions challenge.? I guess, where I am going with all this: If they truely have a "Detonation" engine are they actually running on Nitrogen ? The H2 would only be a means of getting these high temps quickly This would explain their hardware challenges. Think about how violently N detonates.? I have pondered a Nitrogen engine for years.? I wonder if they are on the trail
Also, I am intriqued by your suggestion of firing at 45 degrees ADC.? The flame front would start after peak crank speed.? This seems to support a slower Flame propagation? I can't help wondering how much power would be sacrificed for efficiency (that sounds funny when I say it)

Dave

[rlm555339]

So does that mean I also need to regear the valves?