Self-Runner NS Coil Pulse Motor Live Video Stream. It's been going for months!

[capthook]

@capthook
“The extremely low output is a direct result of the very low moisture.”
This is just wrong.  They actually work much better as they dry out.  Unlike the air battery design which produces more current in direct proportion to how wet the battery is.

‘Much better’ â€" a collection of actual data points would be much more useful.
An easy way to measure the strength of the magnetic field for data points is to see how much weight the coil core will lift/hold by using a small bolt and adding/subtracting washers/nuts until it drops from the core and then weighing it as an example.
Then you could compare actual numbers/data rather than a vague ‘better’ assessment.

Other factors to consider are core remanence and, more importantly, saturation.
With the small power input, it would take a very long time to saturate the core.
If you were to take a reading at 1:00 and another at 1:10, the latter will be larger as the magnetic domains will have become further aligned in the core = more saturated = more magnetism.
This would continue (for a long time in the case of low power input) until the core is fully saturated, about 1.8-2T in 1018 cold rolled steel cores.

This seems to be further illustrated by:

I put the coil in a glass of water and it went to .840V.
I took it out and after 2 minutes it was down to .540V.
I put it in the cage when it was .535V
The magnetic attraction was stronger when dry then when I first took the coil out of the glass of water.
After a few minutes of being in the cage the magnetic attraction was stronger then when it was dry.

The core is becoming further saturated over time meaning a stronger magnetic attraction.
However, the voltage is going down as it dries, meaning a decreasing *rate* of saturation over time.

To add to your other points:
“50mV x 50mA = 0.0025 watts”
I do not know where you got the idea of 50mA from?  For the coil in my live video stream, it's probably well less than 5mA - more like 1mA.  So there really is no power to speak of. 

I saw a DVM reading and you commented in one of the videos of the amps being 50mA... maybe it was a different, unrelated video?

“The numbers for your current project are even more impractical.”
You must be referring to my mini coils which produce much less voltage and mA. They also use much less wire.  But what is cool, is that they run the motor much faster!  They are super impractical if you intend to just hook them up and use them as a battery.

With the same total force output in this scenario, imparting it in multiples over a larger area is a more efficient method than that of 1 large input.
3 small .25 spaced around 360 degrees = more efficient than 1 large .75 at once.

1. Some have seen my magnesium air batteries videos.  I would consider these a purely galvanic battery.  You build them with the goal of trying to achieve as much voltage and amperage as possible.  They can last a very long time when run as air batteries without using the salt water.  With the salt water they only last a month or so.  They have no electromagnetic effect so I do not consider them to be like the NS coil at all.

With the exception being that *both* are ‘working’ as a result of a galvanic reaction.
That is what is providing the magnetism in the NS coil, the volts/amps provided by the galvanic reaction traveling through the wire in the coil creating a magnetic field.

- - - -
Again, thanks for sharing your work.
It is well presented with your videos and such, could just use more *data*.
I’m just trying to provide some things to maybe consider as you further your work.

[Rosemary Ainslie]

...However, your latest approach is basically replacing your galvanic ‘air battery’ for a galvanic NS coil.
And you are now utilizing the magnetism of the coil rather than the electrical output of the air battery.

Golly. Isn't Laser's coil a variation of the Nathan Stubblefield coil?  I rather think it is.  They have very little in common other than the mix of metals.  Not even the wires are joined according to the NS patent.

As you state in your “48 days” video:
"I'm sure there's obviously some level of moisture there, but it's nothing to speak of"

It's good that you remind us of the 'run days' but you've rather understated this.  It's now in excess of 82 days and climbing.      

Obviously, there is a massive difference between *no* moisture and *low* moisture.

Yes.  Obviously.

The extremely low output is a direct result of the very low moisture.
The materials are being consumed at a very low rate as a result of the low humidity.
So yes, you should expect to generate a very small output for a very long time until the materials are consumed.

We've rather exhausted the subject of moisture being responsible and intend establishing this on an empirical basis.  You've possibly missed this point?  In any event 'a very long time' as you put it, is vague.  If this machine continues to operate for a decade?  Would that cut it?  Or would you recommend that we only declare it OU if it first runs for infinity?  Frankly if it runs for another day I'd be impressed and it seems set to last rather longer.  But time will tell.  Indeed. 

It is very difficult to determine the output as you provide little data.  In fact, you even say you’ve quit using a multi-meter and are concentrating on just getting your ‘motor’ to spin. ?

Not sure how you infer this?  What Laser pointed to was the fact that the measured voltage bears little if any relationship to the tendancy of the rotor to spin.  This is strange indeed.  We all know of voltage as a measure of charge imbalance and we also know that when it's induced in a coil then it corresponds to a magnetic property.  This because it's the base reference used in standard multimeters.  The assumption then is that the higher the measured voltage the more inclination there would be to generate that spin.  But this is imply not the case.  On the contrary.  It appears that the exact opposite is the case and therein lies the puzzle.

Magnetism and electricity are just opposite sides of the same coin, so electrical (watts) output is relative to the magnetic field created in a coil.

As mentioned this is only VALID if it conformed to the experimental evidence.  I'm sure we'd all prefer to see what the machine is telling us rather than assume what it should be telling us.  As it is it would be reckless to assume anything at all on this rig.

Concrete output data is much more useful.

Indeed.  That's exactly what we're looking to.  The evidence of a spin over a period of time without the evident input of moisture that is usually applied in a nathan subblefield build.

The output required to turn your rotor is very tiny.  You did in passing say “less than ¼ volt” then updated that with:
50mV x 50mA = 0.0025 watts
So you need 400 of your large coils to produce 1 watt.
24,000 coils to light (1) 60 watt light bulb.
That equals a lot of $, space, weight and materials to light 1 bulb!

It’s a matter of practicality:
1)   $/kWh
2)   Wh/kg

You said it, not me.....but your enthusiasm is notable.

Golly.  Damning with faint praise.    It seems we've lost Omnibus' belligerence to this paraded contempt.  The only reference to any measurement on that entire rig under discussion is the quick and possibly inaccurate measure of voltage presented with the caveat that it may very well be wrong.  To determine current flow here one would need to measure some kind of resistive value.  And I'm entirely satisfied that we DO NOT know the resistive value of the coil.  Nor is there a shunt anywhere in series with the coil.  But frankly if the entire rig is as big as a house if it does, indeed, deliver light over an average life time I think that you'd find some real interest - even if it's not entirely economical.  And then again.  It's early days.  I don't think our early computers ever pretended to be economically viable.  Just really, really, interesting.

If I were inclined to being overly protective and overly imaginative I'd advise Laser to 'take cover' as this subject seems to be pulling in the 'big guns'.  Fortunately I'm neither.   

Rosemary

EDITED

[capthook]

Golly.  Damning with faint praise.

Well, I must say that I disagree with your assesment of your scientific/technical prowness that I quoted.  You are obviously educated and well-spoken, I just couldn't resist the 'jab' after the earlier Omnifuss throw-down.   

[Rosemary Ainslie]

Hi guys.  So nice to see so many new builds.  Iota, Ted and Slapper.  That's got to be a good thing.  I'm off to campus to start stripping my copper wire.  And I've also found some nichrome - hopefully that'll cut it. 

And hopefully we'll get a running commentary from CaptHook that relates to his own experiments here.  That way they'll be more digestible.   

Such adventures.      And really nice to get some input from Laser.  Thanks for this.  I think we'll all be in need of guidance when it comes to positioning that rotor.  Certainly I will.  I guess it's just trial and error and an awful lot of patience.  I'm over qualified at the 'error' and underqualified at the patience.  But will attend to both - God willing and time permitting.  LOL.

Kindest as ever
Rosemary

btw.  It's not often that I'm accused of being well eductated.  LOL.  I rather cherish that comment CaptHook albeit not strictly a reflection of the truth.  But like everyone here I share that obsessive interest in electrical and, indeed, all kinds of energy.

[gauschor]

Hmm, got an exotic idea:

Let's say the device works in dry state and the main reason for that is picking up external EMF: now let's assume we could isolate it from the external EMF and it wouldn't work anymore:
Maybe we could power it instead with electrostatic potential produced by a Wimshurst device as well?

If that works and the small magnet motor still spins (hopefully with more power) one could then couple the movement of this magnet rotor with the Wimshurst device, and then feedback the produced EMF again to the coil. You might as well also need to switch in a small Teslacoil in between first and feed the NS coil from there.

Would be a lot of work though (especially the Wimshurst is a pain to construct yourself...), and there might be some flaws in my way of thinking e.g. the biggest issue I would see is that the electrostatic power for the NS coil is maybe too weak to power the small magnet motor, but then again, it doesn't seem to need much power anyways.