pat. 3469130 Jines, J.E. Magnetic Motor, does it work?

[tbird]

I am not sure what you mean by "another piece of ferrite material". The effect works because you have two magnets with the same poles opposing each other e.g S to S but the ferrite material in between the magnets will always be attracted to BOTH poles. My experiments were based on having one magnet and the ferrite material as the stator and the other magnet as part of the rotor.

The combination of ferrite thickness, its ferromagnetic properties, in relation to the strength of the magnets needs to be taken into account. Therefore the distance between the the rotor magnet and ferrite material at 'neutral' will be dependent on the above factors.

The potential here (my experiments were not scientific but I think they merit more investigation!) is that you can use the ferrite material of the stator - at distance - for attraction and then transition to repulsion once the rotor magnet gets close enough to the other magnet. The neutral point means, unlike the transitioning from one pole to the other of a magnet, there is no force (i.e 'sticking point') you need to overcome.

Have I built a working motor that demonstrates this idea as workable? No - but I have confirmed the effect using a ferrite block and some magnets.

NTesla,

sorry for the confusion.  you, like me, think it logical to use a magnet not only on the stator, but also on the rotor.  Jine did not.  maybe because of the thinking 40+ years ago, he designed his motor with attraction to metal in the rotor.  a lot of motors today use this method but with electromagnets (no shielding) which are timed to turn on and off at the desired time.

with that in mind, in Jine's machine, the stator magnet can be hidden from the rotor block (ferrite material) if the shield is thick enough to contain all of the flux from the magnet.  if this is done, the rotor will not be attracted to  the magnet.  if when the magnet is uncovered and the rotor block is close enough, the rotor should be drawn to the magnet.  this is where the rotation is developed.  once the rotor is near covering the magnet (its work is done for that segment of the cycle), the shield should then cover the magnet so the rotor can continue on with little or no resistance (that would be caused by the stator magnet) to the next step in the cycle.

The effect works because you have two magnets with the same poles opposing each other e.g S to S but the ferrite material in between the magnets will always be attracted to BOTH poles.

i don't think this is exactly right.  if the ferrite material is not large enough to handle all the flux from the first magnet, then the second magnet will still feel resistance from the field of the first and will not stick to the ferrite material, at least where the first magnet is located.

hope we are on the same page now.

tom

[tbird]

By the way, what's your opinion on the Torbay device?  From how you've described the device in the patent you found, if the shielding worked, I get the impression it'd be working in a similar fashion to the Torbay device, wherein it's in a perpetual state of disequilibrium, forever falling into a gap between the moving magnets.  I ask this because I'm a bit critical of those sort of designs, to the point where I really doubt they can work, and I was wondering if you've thought about that aspect of the design.

lwh,

torbay uses repulsion rather than attraction to make the rotor turn.  at the same time, torbay ask his design to do a lot of work, even before giving up extra power to, say drive a generator.

the ramps used to move the magnets (like you would say) look like a reasonable way to get the magnets up and down when needed.  i have found, in one device i tried, that when the roller meets the ramp, unless everything is perfectly machined, it sounds and feels like the roller just ran into a brick wall.  to say the least, this was enough to kill my hopes of it working.

in torbays unit there were a lot of hinges too.  with a hinge, you get or lose leverage.  i think his was on the losing end.

in this thread "Magnet Motor from Argentina, part2" a couple of guys tried really hard to build this design, but in the end gave up.

there maybe more than 1 reason jine's machine won't work, but i think the most likely reason would be the cam arrangement.  i have come up with what i think would be a better way for that (rat trap inspired), but would like to hear others thoughts before giving up on jine's approach to this.

also, i would like other opinions on what the shield would do on its own without the spring and not connected to anything.  in other words if it were installed and had to be operated by hand, where would the shield starting point be?  how much effect would the stator magnet have on the shield?

tom

[wings]

a new piston Generator:
An energy producing apparatus utilizing magnetic pistons is provided. Permanent magnets of like polarity are employed within a cylinder of each piston and upon a top portion of said piston. The like polarity pistons have a natural desire to repel one another. A ferromagnetic slipper unit is...

Patent number: 7330094
Filing date: May 16, 2006
Issue date: Feb 12, 2008

[NTesla]

NTesla,

i don't think this is exactly right.  if the ferrite material is not large enough to handle all the flux from the first magnet, then the second magnet will still feel resistance from the field of the first and will not stick to the ferrite material, at least where the first magnet is located.

hope we are on the same page now.

tom

Your right  My statement was in the context of having a ferrite material of suitable thickness - if it ain't thick enough it will not work!

[NTesla]

a new piston Generator:
An energy producing apparatus utilizing magnetic pistons is provided. Permanent magnets of like polarity are employed within a cylinder of each piston and upon a top portion of said piston. The like polarity pistons have a natural desire to repel one another. A ferromagnetic slipper unit is...

Patent number: 7330094
Filing date: May 16, 2006
Issue date: Feb 12, 2008

Interesting patent - I have only read the image and therefore my first question is about how much energy is required to remove the ferromagnetic slipper unit considering it looks like force is required to overcome its attraction to BOTH pistons. If this is true where is the net gain? Seems to me it would only be worth it if the energy required to move the ferromagnetic slipper in a cycle was less than the combined repulsion of the magnets and losses through friction etc.