FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR

[konehead]

hey Mile too-high
I did tell you what  the INPUT to Ismaels car is.
It runs on single 12V battery, that is its only source of power. you should know this if you studied up on it, and you should know the draw from the battery is the obvious answer to what the input is.
wnen something is overunity you can look at it as there is "no" source of power, (where does it come from ambient?) 
but in case of this electic car he has single 12V battery or it wont work at all so it "runs" on that.
so obviously you would measure the amp draw from it,
or the drop in charge over time with hydrometer,
or how long it can run the car befroe it goes dead, and figure the watts-consumed knowing the amp-hour rating of the battery,
all this like you would do with anything running off a 12V battery...take your pick which way they will all come out the same in watts comsumed from battery.
His MEG is a capacitive-discharge unit too, so I even gave you the formula to figure WATTS form that too,
so I gave you two methods of measuring input, either from the "source" (the battery) or the input "out" of the MEG whihc goes INTO  the forklift motor.
So I answered your quesiton TWICE and now  have answered it again in more detail.
Hope you are happy now but doubt it - you do not understand Ismaels MEG system pworeing his car, and you will have to really study alot on it and do some experiemtns of your own on peak coil shorting before you do. 
If you did expeiments with coil-shoritn at peaks you will see you get 3time more power and it doesnt reflect back to source too, when this power is made soits an overunity method of extracing poer from energized coils simnple as that. Ismael has expanded upon it, make it high frequency and high voltage and its very amazing what he has done.
I have talked peresonally on phone with Ismael alot about this DOE test before it and after it, and know how long it took him for them to get into the lab, (about a year) and that he had to meet with all engineers before hand and make them fully understand his system, (took a full day) and I also talked to him alot on the input measurements, and gave that same formula to Ismel to double check with what the cap-discharge is too in watts.
I dont think for a second that they did a bad job in the testing of it - they are govenment DOE lab and they dont put out bogus and inaccurate measuremnts. If they did they would all be fired.
Those dynometers are incremental in there meausrments of things and can do motorcycles and small stuff like three wheel meter-maid use would use I am sure...if they could NOT measure accurate, the DOE would of SAID SO....they arent "working" for Ismael...they are engineers and test stuff legitimate.
the power that his MEG puts out is way more than 133% eff too - there is so much mechanical and rotational loss in that electical car with forklfit  motor it gets "watered down" to only 133% effecient.

[konehead]

Hi Keh077
jsut to elaborate on the zero-volts thing, it has to do with fact that as capacitors fill up, the resistance in them changes as they fill plus fact the polariztion of cap changes resitacne form non-polarized state too.
when they discharge, the reistance in them changes too of course too...but Ismeal needs to take that voltage all the way down to zero upon a discharge-event.
Ismaels systems are all VERY resonate-condition based, so if resistance jsut changes a small bit, the whole thing goes out of whack easy and this control of cap resistance is very important...and is one reaosn fro "why" the zero volts the caps must be at or they dont fill up as they should.
also it has to do with fact as soon as you have any voltage in cap, now the cap is polarized to be one way (he is filling and discharginn DC caps in MEG as far as I know) and if cap is at zero volts there is "no polarity" to it...not sure exaclty about this but that is general idea I got from him talking on phone with him a few months back....
this all relates to filling up capacitors UNLOADED as you must do, when doing coil-shorting at peaks - you know that if you have any resitance across those caps that fill from the coil-shoritng it snubs away all the HV ringing that happens from the coil-shaort at peak and you get NOTHING happening out of ordinary of filling up cap from induced or energized coils.......this is also why solid state relays, SCRs and transisitors will not work AT ALL doing coil shorting - their resistance is too high, and it snubs it all away, and you get that NOTHING....I could only do coil-shorting with reed swtiches or mechanical brush-commutators for years,  ( Idisconevere id in 2006 with reed swtihces on Mullegenraror coils jsut folling around)
It wasnt unt until Ismael told me a couple years ago to use paralell HV mosfets and it is the high resistance in my SSRs that was killing everything in my feeble attempts,. so after I wnet to paralell HV mosfets, it  now worked perfectly solid state....
anyways what I am getting at is the that "collector"cap's resistance-value is very touchy and sensitive - probably especially when you get into shorting at the peaks of the ringing (!)
and so that is why the must-be-zero volts....and the polarity of the cap being "set up" one way in polarity probably also changes the reistance value of cap very drastically compared to the "zero-votlage" state of a DC cap is my theory on it all, even if it is jsut one or two or even a half-volt volts in cap ...it now will sort of put cap into a polarized-mode, and that polarized-mode has changed resistance drastically as compared to zero-volts non-polarized state (even if DC cap) anyways this is my take and understanding from info Ismael gave me.....could be something else altogether but somethign to chew on at least.

On other thing, are thos IGBTs inyour circuit "bidirectional? Isee the ources are connected, but are the gates? I see diodes there...not sure...also could you try out two single didoes facing opposite for purpose filling two sperate DC caps (one from pos phase one form neg phase like diode plug)...this instead of the FWBR you have?
this iswhere I am going next few dasy or this week as I want to do diode-plug output instead of two stage ouptut where "eveything" disconnects whiel cpas output as explained afew posts back......not sure if its going to work or not like FWBR does butit should - it would be good to get 2nd opinion (like my psychiatrisst told me I was crazy so I went to my regular doctor for 2nd opinion and he told me I was ugly too) ha

[forest]

I'd like to ask here something which is important to me but may look a bit offtopic. Is that discharge of capacitor using parallel fet's unidirectional ? Or maybe diferrent question : is it possible without using diodes to have unidirectional discharge from capacitor using FETs or IGBT ?

[MileHigh]

Konehead:

I did tell you what  the INPUT to Ismaels car is.

I am not talking about that input measurement.  Ismael's car only came up later in the conversation.

Just to deal with that issue, the average current at 12 volts to make 300 watts would be 25 amps.  We have no information on the architecture of the electrical/mechanical power system in the car.  The load on the battery would certainly not look like a purely resistive load and that means that the current would pulse be pulsing.  If 25 amps is the average current then the pulsing current might have peaks of 50 or 75 amps.  High current peaks would cause the battery voltage to drop.

With high amperage current pulses and a non-constant battery voltage that would be a challenge to measure properly.  The real way to make the measurement would be with a digital storage oscilloscope.  There was no sign of a DSO in the clips.  Ismael made no mention of how he made the measurement for the battery output power - which is the input power to the car.  We also know that a digital multimeter can get "scrambled brains" sometimes when trying to make current measurements when the current waveform is pulsing.

So with no explanation or documentation from Ismael on how he made the battery power measurements I have very little confidence that a good measurement was made.  At the same time the people in the DOT lab had no experience or understanding on how to measure the electrical power consumption of an electrical car.  They clearly were not equipped to do that and let Ismael's team make that measurement.

If Ismael had presented clear data and explained exactly how he made the power measurement for the battery it would be a different story.  Unfortunately we have no information at all.  The only thing we have is a claim that the draw on the battery was 300 watts.

These issues cannot simply be avoided or swept under the carpet.  If you are going to make a claim that you have an over unity electric car then you have to present credible data to back it up.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

Konehead:

Now let me go back to the real discussion:

Kehyo77 posted a clip by Ismael where he sketches a magnet passing by a coil, you short out the coil, then collect the energy in a capacitor with an FWBR.

It's in that clip where he claimed that you can get a three-fold increase in the energy out (or the average power out) as compared to the energy in (or the average power in.)

That's where I stated that Ismael has to show input and output measurements to back up his claim.  If he is a serious researcher, he should already know ahead of time that that is what he has to do.

Then you showed a somewhat similar circuit but you made no specific claims.  But the same concept applies - if your circuit is going to be useful then you have to make input and output measurements on it too.  The challenging measurement is the input measurement.  Even measuring the average power output from the charging capacitors gets a bit tricky as the frequency of operation of the device gets higher.  Hence the same question was directed at you since you posted your schematic diagram.

Again, Ismael made a simplified sketch of a cap pulser circuit that is driven by magnets moving past a pick-up coil and claimed that this circuit outputs three times more energy or average power than you put into the circuit.

If Ismael wants to convince me or anybody else that this is actually true then he has to make properly documented input and output measurements.  You have to do both measurements and show your methodology and your data.

You posted a circuit that is similar in concept to Ismael's circuit so I am suggesting the same request for your setup.

Any statements about how high the voltage you can charge the output caps to and the value of the capacitors is meaningless without a corresponding input power measurement.

So that's what I was asking Ismael and by extension I am asking you too.

MileHigh