Captret - Capacitor and Electret

[Farmhand]

Did a test on another capacitor in "captret" configuration monitoring current from a 10 volt source.

Initial current:        equivalent leakage resistance:

100mA                     100 ohms

One minute later:

10mA                       1000 ohms

Two Minutes

1 mA                        10,000 ohms

Three minutes

0.1 mA                     100,000 ohms

As the oxide layer forms the leakage resistance progressively goes up as current goes down.

At no time did the current ever reverse, even after one hour when the leakage was less than 0.1 mA. So there is no battery charging effect.

As I said in the previous post the "captret " acts like a variable resistor changing resistance upward over time hence presenting a much lower load on the battery from the initial connection.

The reduced current over time causes the battery voltage to increase giving the illusion that the battery is being charged....it is not.

A high brightness led fed from a 9 volt battery will be lit for a very long time  when operated at less than 0.1 mA.

I second what TK said, very refreshing to see actual test data with the relevant parameters measured.

I have a question, or three  .

Does the test data mean that the capacitor is effectively destroyed in about three minutes ?

Or does the oxide layer not have such an effect on the capacitor, I mean is a capacitor that is used in a "cap-tret" arrangement ok
to then use in another project that requires a capacitor in good condition ?

I guess the point is two fold-- 1. why does such a big change happen in such a short space of time (oxide layer)
and-- 2. is it reversible ?

Cheers

[Vortex1]

Farmhand asked:

I have a question, or three  (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/embarrassed.gif).

Does the test data mean that the capacitor is effectively destroyed in about three minutes ?

Or does the oxide layer not have such an effect on the capacitor, I mean is a capacitor that is used in a "cap-tret" arrangement ok
to then use in another project that requires a capacitor in good condition ?

I guess the point is two fold-- 1. why does such a big change happen in such a short space of time (oxide layer)
and-- 2. is it reversible ?

Thanks for your interest. As long as the case is positive and the minus terminal is negative, and current and voltage is limited, the capacitor wil not be destroyed. It is usually only the outer wrap of the negative terminal that is involved in the reaction.

The reaction happens quickly because it is only one wrap and the outer case involved. If you try to reverse it by reversing polarity, you may harm the outer layer of the negative wrap. I will try this in time and report back.

Any electrolytic capacitor that has been sitting on the shelf a long time, such as new old stock (NOS) will have a high initial leakage until the oxide layers form completely.

When plugging in an old radio , amplifier or any old electronic equipment that has been sitting around a long time, it is good practice to bring it up slowly with a variac or light bulb in series with the device to limit current until the oxide layers completely reform. If excessive current is drawn by plugging in directly, the filter electrolytics can short or even explode. I have watched this current drain with a power meter and you would be surprised how hot the big electrolytics can get until they are "formed". There is a big difference in power drawn before and after "forming".

I have had good luck in most cases reforming electrolytics in old equipment without having to replace them by bringing the voltage up very slowly or current limiting the input power. The capacitors will slowly reform and after an hour or so draw normal current. The equipment then can be operated normally.

[Paul-R]

Paul:

How about this:

I can hold a capacitor in my hand and connect a resistor across it and it will discharge the stored energy.

I can hold a coil in my hand and connect a resistor across it and it will discharge the stored energy.  The waveform for the inductor discharge can be identical to the waveform of the capacitor discharge.

So where is the "radiant energy?"  Who said that discharging a coil produces "radiant energy?"  After all, you can make measurements that show that the battery supplied the energy to the coil.  The math for the discharge for the coil and the capacitor is all worked out.

Find references for a coil producing "radiant energy" when it discharges.  I mean references outside of the groups of people that are Bedini motor enthusiasts or free energy enthusiasts.  Can you?

What is your definition of "radiant energy?"  I mean your real definition, not just some catch phrase.

If you hold two fingers across the two coil terminals of a regular 12-volt relay and then you disconnect the power, you feel a high-voltage shock.  It's fairly strong and can hurt a bit.  What's going on there?  Is that "radiant energy?"

Show me one Bedini motor experiment where an experimenter measures the average power input from the source battery, and they also measure the average power output to the charging battery.  That would measure the efficiency of the motor.  Can you provide any links?

The whole "Bedini radiant energy" concept is false.  A Bedini motor charges a battery through pulses of current with a measurable and fixed amount of energy when it it is running in a steady state.  How often do Bedini motor enthusiasts attempt to measure the amount of energy in each charging pulse?

The burden of proof is on you to prove that inductor discharges, one of the most basic fundamental concepts in electronics, are "radiant energy."

My feeling is that you are stating that because that's what you heard from Bedini.

MileHigh

.
You flatter yourself when you imagine that I can be bothered.
.

[MileHigh]

Paul:

You flatter yourself when you imagine that I can be bothered.

Bullcrap.  You are just being dismissive and rude because you can't respond with a coherent argument about a Berdini motor charging a battery with "radiant energy."  You just want to forget this ever took place so in a month you can tell some newbie about the "radiant energy" and sound authoritative.

Like a horse with blinders on.

MileHigh

[Johan_1955]

It is not a generator of "radiant energy," that is complete nonsense.  The SG is a very crappy battery charger in terms of power-in to power-out efficiency.  It is typically only 30% efficient and 70% of the source battery power is lost as waste heat to make the wheel spin.

In the entire world of electronics, and electrical technology in general, the output from a discharging coil is never referred to as "radiant energy."

In your mind you probably think that there is something "amazing and different" about the "radiant energy spike."  Well the truth is that that is complete and total nonsense.

My suggestion to you is to learn about how a coil works so that you can understand why and under what conditions a coil can generate a high voltage spike.

It's time for you and many others like you to demystify this Bedini nonsense where he calls the output from a coil, "radiant energy."  That makes it sound like it comes from "somewhere else," possibly even the "vacuum."  The source of the energy for the voltage spike is the battery.

MileHigh

Hi Nicky,

We learn so much from you, and learned from you!

We all would like to see some hard-copy evidence:From your Bedini building, testing and later the communication with John Bedini directly, approachable he is at his forum!
To confront him with your SG or what ever Bedini experience!

So you complete always, could it be fast!?


Regards, Johan