Electricity from heat exchangers?

[Low-Q]

I have been thinking of the very same thing as the drawing above. The heat pump is collecting heat from the air, just like a turbine collects kinetic energy from the waterfall. The waterfall is created by making a dam to collect all that water level, and a heat pump is using fans to collect heat from the air which is "focused" on a small area on the hot side of the pump.
The level below the dams upper edge is the maxium potential you can get from the water fall.
The temperature level between the surrounding air around the heat pump and the hot side of the pump is the maximum potential that is "dammed". The energy spent to make the temperature difference is so small that the environmental air will not be measurable affected by it.
The heat from the sun will be the water in the lake that continuously fill the "heat-dam".


So if a heat pump REALLY can supply 5 or 6 times more heat than what is supplied by the pump-motor itself, the calculation should be pretty straight forward whether this works or not.


I was told once that a heat pump with high COP was accordlingly inefficient as a heat engine. A heat pump with poor COP was accordingly more efficient as a heat engine. I know this because I asked the same question as here. However the answer was "You cannot get a selfrunning energy source because the high COP heat pump works as a very inefficient heat engine". I asked what if one of the heatpumps had very poor COP, and we reversed it to make a heat engine out of it, and ran it with a heat pump with very high COP. What then? I did not got that question answered.


Anyways, no matter how we understand this, energy MUST be conserved. If energy is not conserved with this idea, it will not work. Easy as that. I think it will work, AND that energy is conserved. It works just as well as a heat pump can supply more heat than the energy it consumes from the grid. That is at least my claim. No magic, no overunity, just pure conservative physics that works surprisingly well.


I think most sceptics say no because it appears to be overunity - while it's not. It remain to test this in practice. Anyone with a good and bad heat pump somewhere in Norway (Close to Oslo Airport Gardermoen)?


Vidar

[Doug1]

Wow a very good line of argument. Havent seen that in a long time.
  Maybe you can use a small natural effect to lock onto a larger natural effect that amounts to something of size. How did they make gasses into liquid before they had liquid gasses in the first place to operate the refrigeration cycle to make the liquid gasses for you to argue about.

[jfilmmusic]

Wow a very good line of argument. Havent seen that in a long time.
  Maybe you can use a small natural effect to lock onto a larger natural effect that amounts to something of size. How did they make gasses into liquid before they had liquid gasses in the first place to operate the refrigeration cycle to make the liquid gasses for you to argue about.

Nice, inspiring questions.
I like the 'nature bootstrap' concept. Are you hinting of water...(which boils at room temperature around 0.5psi)? A vacuum (anti-compression) evaporative cooling cycle using water as refrigerant, with roughly 0.2 or 0.14 psi (negative atm) vacuum? Kinetic evaporation...? Considering toxicity, ozone depletion, flammability, system efficiency (via modern enhancements) and design considerations...

[Doug1]

Water gravity earth and solar 2 seperate systems. One above ground and one under it. In the middle under some sort of controled rate of contact in a insulated two sided ratiator plate lay a gang of peltires several layers thick between plates. The system in the air or above ground gainning extra heat from solar radiation in the sun hours and storing it in a mass or in batteries. The ground system rejecting the heat into the same hot storage above turning the ground into a cold reservouir below the frost line level 14 inches should do fine. Two preasure ,vaccume systems placed in two different environments. Controlling the rate of dissapation where the differences combine to act upon the peltires. Shared use of both for other domestic use would require proper size of thermal batteries <earth ,air storage>. Two pond systems have been considered but the soil is dense and generally colder then air in the summer.While it may be considered warm in comparison to the air in the winter it is by no means warm it's just not as cold. Experience dictates that storing heat in the ground is less effective because it dries out the soil eventually making it less effective, it then acts as an insulator.Conversley if water is frozen in the ground it takes it a long time to thaw out before it even has a chance to start drying out. Since each of the two systems runs independantly in a location which favors their individual tendancies it will work less to maintain a greater difference of temperature backed with additional input of the selected environments.Even a small system will be useful. If need be gloycol can be added as an antifreeze or other products. Freon is in my opinion only useful to reduce the size of a system to make a refrigerator for food that will fit in a kitchen. Even that is questionable against an amonia refrigerator considering the lower amount of energy to operate the later. People are wrongly afraid of amonia due to propaganda from chemical companies. More people die due to hart desease from eating fast food then do from stabbing the coils and releasing the gas in a frigde. When there is no more clean water to drink or gas for your car and food is in short supply you wont give a rats ass about what kind of refrigerant is in your house.
   Got off topic sorry.
If your system is feeble as in it generates too little. Turn your feeble output into a receiver and learn how to amp up your antanna aperature to make a bubble as big as you can at a freq in tune with back ground noise. Its all about the antanna, size matters only in effective aperature. Physical size is a missnomer. You walk around and drive all the while yaking on your cell phone never giving thought to how the little piece of crap can reach out and get a signal and transmit with such ease inspite of how small it is. Or you use a GPS to add to your agrivation think about those distances. Thats a pretty serious antanna. You can do a lot with very little if your pointing it at something really big and they match electrically.