Hydro Differential pressure exchange over unity system.

[mrwayne]

@mrwayne,

I have found that trying to lower the ZED model from it's neutral buoyant condition is very time consuming to calculate.  This is because the volume of the chamber that contains the air and water channels between the Riser layers is also collapsing as the entire Pod and Riser group descends.  This causes the water head in these areas to rise again and buoyancy to rise above neutral for everything except the Pod.

These observations are with an unloaded ZED however; one loaded to 1/3 of ideal only by it's own material weight and additional weights to make it that value.  So the entire system should still sink once loaded to 80% for "production."

All this leads me to believe that the actual working stroke is much less than what I had imagined.  Can you give us an idea how much you are stroking your test set up?

Thanks,

M.

@M.
I have not explored the unloaded Zed - in our Demo model - with no additional load it takes 1.9 psi to lift 900 pounds worth of riser.
Or 4.4 feet of accumulated head.
This is the sinking Pressure - you can not get below this pressure unless you are setting on bottom.
The Risers and Pod will not begin to lower until after the 1.9 drops to 1.8and immediately - when the pod and riser drops the pressure returns to 1.9 - until bottom is hit.
With no load - you can float the system 2.0 and sink the system 1.8.
With our added weight 1600 pounds ( 900 =2500) - we have 5.0 pounds of pressure 4.9 sinks and 5.1 floats
When we add our Hydraulic load 3500 pounds ( 900 2500 =6000) - we have 8.8 pounds of pressure
So if you start at 4.9 (sunk) and you increase to 8.8 you are in production mode - How much production is based on stroke length.
The maximum pressure in our system is 10.4 - so you have the ability to stroke to the same place -if you were to stroke to 10.4.
As you stroke (loaded with 6000) - your head does change but a fraction you merely raise the water level below the Pod.
The load maintains the head - so the pod chamber diameter becomes you volume of stroke Per inch.
In our case 737 inched
On that note 737 x 3.8 =2800 That is what a hydraulic cylinder can lift
we add 3.8 to lift 3500....................... Seamus pay attention.
The 2500 gives us a pressure of 5.0
8.8 = total of 6000
1.9 lifts 900
To all - Build a linear chart comparing the hydraulic cylinder and our Zed - if you have not had your OM-Gosh moment - it is time.
I would like to hear from more of you who have, and Thank you.
mr.wayne@hydroenergyrevolution.com
Wayne

@M if I did not answer your question - I was not sure I understood the question?

[mrwayne]

@mrwayne. In your last post you told us of the importance of the pod-to-riser diameter ratio.


Question. Please tell us if the ratio of diameter of outer tank to its hight is an important one.

Well, Pod to riser "GAP" was the point specifially: that the pod is nearly a bonus to the lift - it is good to have it as large as you can, considering the smallest gap you can. Don't throw away its value with big gaps - is the point. and since the largest gain in the system comes from the riser above the Pod -make it priority in your models.
Next question: Ratio to Hieght to Diamter - depends on what you value
We have models that are 860% effeceint - and the prodcue less net than our 340% system.
So do you want to blow the minds of people - or supply more power.
SO - yes they matter, taller reduces the non lenier function -
The non lenier is awesome to reduce our input cost.
Wider incereases power very quickly.
Layers increase the non lenier - so our model selects the sweet spots for both.
Wayne

[mondrasek]

@M if I did not answer your question - I was not sure I understood the question?

You gave enough information for me to understand where I think I need to focus next on the cylindrical model analysis.  So the actual question is not important for that, but still I would like to know:  What is the production stroke that you use in your 6 foot tall ZED systems when they are in full automatic operation.  If you can share that info...

M.

[neptune]

I have been giving some thought to mrwayne`s suggestion about making a linear chart. I will freely admit that mathematics is not my strong point. So I think by a linear chart he probably means a graph. Obviously we have to be careful to compare apples with apples and not oranges. It is usual to start with some assumptions. So we assume that for the purpose of this graph, we will use one zed. We know the size of this ZED, and we know how much water we need to inject into it to "stroke" it, and at  what pressure. We know how much weight it is going to lift and what distance it will be lifted.
    The equivalent hydraulic system we will use for comparison. It just consists of two interconnected cylinders, or if you like giant syringes. The input cylinder or pump will be designed to pump the same amount of water as is used to stroke the ZED. The diameter of the output cylinder will be chosen so that it has the same stroke length as the ZED . So both systems will have the same input volume and pressure.
    So we have a two axis graph. Question is, what do the two axes show? Is one for the amount of weight lifted, and the other for input pressure? Would that show what we want to show?
    So now we have two curves on the graph, one for the hydraulic system and one for the ZED. We may want to show a third curve for a two ZED system.
    These are just the initial thoughts of a layman. Could be complete Bullshine. Come on guys , someone can do better than this?

[mrwayne]

You gave enough information for me to understand where I think I need to focus next on the cylindrical model analysis.  So the actual question is not important for that, but still I would like to know:  What is the production stroke that you use in your 6 foot tall ZED systems when they are in full automatic operation.  If you can share that info...

M.

Our available stroke length is 7.75 inches at 6000 pounds - we only stroke 3 inches (limited by Bag selection).
Even if we had a longer bag, or wider cylinder - we would not stroke 7.75 - for reliability - to close to ideal means risking blowing skirts (air or water to next layer).

Thanks
Wayne