Hydro Differential pressure exchange over unity system.

[TinselKoala]

However, I thought it would be easier to just raise and lower a bucket (or glass) of water to the level you wanted to have the water head inside.  You don't even have to put a hole in the bottom.  :-)

Maybe that's the secret of the Zed..... With no inlet and no outlet, everything is conserved, and you just tap off some of the energy of motion to turn your alternator.

Actually, the elevated bucket, or rather cylindrical container, elevated to the necessary height (or...even easier, pressurised with compressed air to a known pressure) makes the perfect piston and push-force application system, I should think. You have no problems with piston-cylinder friction or sealing. All you need to do is know the area of the cylinder's cross-section and the pressure and the "stroke" or difference in the water heights in the cylinder, and you've got your perfect pressure injector, easily quantifiable in terms of work input to the Zed, and easily valved off to keep whatever it applies from backflowing.
This is the same thing that the bag does, I suppose, only the bag doesn't need to be elevated. The bag would seem to be harder to quantify in terms of work input, though.

[fletcher]

In the sim, the volume of water is a calculated geometry to be just enough to fill the Pod chamber to the top with the stroke at the top.  No water was harmed or wasted in the construction of this sim... LOL

Because all the water is counterbalanced in the sim, the total amount of water becomes irrelevant as far as input pressure goes.  100% of the input pressure gets transferred into the Pod head. 

A "U" shaped tube going into the bottom of the pod water chamber will always balance out with the water in the pod head.  Which also makes it easy to measure the pod water level from outside the ZED.  Just pour water into the outside "U" tube until it reaches the desired water level inside.  A drain at the bottom of the tube would let you lower the water level inside.

However, I thought it would be easier to just raise and lower a bucket (or glass) of water to the level you wanted to have the water head inside.  You don't even have to put a hole in the bottom.  :-)

Yes, that sounds easy & quantifiable for a real world test.

Then just calculate the work done to lift the water to the desired height from the outlet height & voila you have the joules of energy to raise the PE of the water.

[see3d]

Actually, the elevated bucket, or rather cylindrical container, elevated to the necessary height (or...even easier, pressurised with compressed air to a known pressure) makes the perfect piston and push-force application system, I should think. You have no problems with piston-cylinder friction or sealing. All you need to do is know the area of the cylinder's cross-section and the pressure and the "stroke" or difference in the water heights in the cylinder, and you've got your perfect pressure injector, easily quantifiable in terms of work input to the Zed, and easily valved off to keep whatever it applies from backflowing.
This is the same thing that the bag does, I suppose, only the bag doesn't need to be elevated. The bag would seem to be harder to quantify in terms of work input, though.

Measuring the small air pressure differentials in a table top system might not be that easy. 

In my previous example of raising a glass of water, I made an error.  The water level in the glass includes the virtual water in the pod head (i.e. the air PSI). 

The total input work is a direct measurement of the glass area x distance raised x water weight per unit volume.  Raise the glass until the pod just starts to rise - epsilon.  Then put a load weight on the pod.  Raise the glass higher until the pod just rises again and measure the distance required.  That is the spring loss of the system.  Then raise the glass further to make the pod stroke to the top.  That is the direct output work -- weight x stroke.  The input to do that is as I said before. 

I think I got that input math right.

With a bag, you just add weight on top of it and see how much you added and far it drops to get your desired outputs.  I think that is the most direct measurement of input work.

[parisd]

LarryC,

In your attached drawing, only the first 2 steps can work. How can we use the hydraulic assist to use the lower pressure Zed to pressurize the higher pressure Zed?

Attached is the Simple Zed to Zed Flow.

No Flow - Valve closed
Free Equalization Flow - Valve open
Hydraulic Assist - Since the Zed water columns start equal, the input cost will be to change the actual Water Head between Zed's from 0 to 3.4 PSI. Edit: OU out the wazoo, for those who understand.

I used 8.4 as specified in Reply 963 by Wayne:
'Our pressure is:
Minimum 5.0,  8.4 max, and 6.7 post free flow.
Since the true input cost to each side it the diffirence between these pressures and the Max - this is very important.'


Regards, Larry

PS: The actual system doesn't transfer the water, since each retains it's own water supply. It just transfer the force to move each Zed's water supply.

[Red_Sunset]

There is a lot of talk of extraneous PE after a ZED cycle.
Seamus makes the point well that to be OU, Potential has to be raised, & he gives the easy to visualize example of water spontaneously flowing uphill as he eloquently puts it.
Happy hunting !

Hi Fletcher,
You and Seamus are soooo close, you are seeing but not recognizing the energy conundrum.
The water doesn't flow uphill, only a charged-up supply is maintained charged and is recycled with great advantage which gives you the appearance of an uphill flow, the net effect is the same.

I regret not able to tell you outright the answer, self discovery was the intend of the inventor in this tread.
Sawing the seeds for inventive thinking.  Making people think for themselves, instead of copycatting.
Innovation requires independent and out-of-the-box thinking, possibly someone here can take the principles of this invention to new unforeseen heights, then it would have served a purpose. Blueprint copying is China.  I though most of the members here live in the western world, the home of invention and innovation since ........ Or have we given up on that and intent to position ourselves behind China

I hope some new seeds can also be sawed for people in general to start thinking for themselves, instead of just eating and believing whatever is said on TV or news media as the gospel truth. Especially in the upcoming American election which appears to be a done deal before I has begun.

That was quite a mouthful, couldn't resist,
Michel