Muller Dynamo for experimentalists

[e2matrix]

EMDevices,  thanks for all the analysis.  For some reason I'm not getting what you said here though regarding the capacitor voltage: "2)  the pulses occur around the maximum induced voltage, when the voltage increases ABOVE the output capacitor voltage."

What voltage is the "output capacitor voltage"?  You aren't talking about the maximum voltage rating of the cap are you?  Sorry I'm lost on exactly what this means in this case.  (P.S.  I think I understand now after seeing your post in the main Muller thread.  Still scratching my head a bit though on this   ) 
   
   Have you seen teslaalset's explanation for what is going on in this device?  (he has a separate message thread now on this) He ran a simulation with the Ansys Maxwell program and seems to have come up with some good explanations of how it works within traditional physics.  It also appears that higher RPM is not necessarily the best for this device based on Romero's statement plus several replicators have noted some better results in the area of 1200 RPM I believe. 

   I'm having some trouble with the idea that we are putting 20 amps through the wire coils also.  With the gauge suggested by Romero and in use by some replicators I would think everyone would be smoking their wires.  You are way over my head with your calcs but just from experience I know pushing 20 amps through wire that is about 27 gauge will surely burn it out fast.  I think 27 gauge is rated around 1.7 amps. 
Thanks for your help with this and good luck in your build. 

[teslaalset]

Guys, I'll do some sims on the actual voltage and currents and post a link here to my data that I will post in the 3D sim thread I created yesterday, if that helps you.

[EMdevices]

Disregard what I said about the 20 amp pulses.    I was typing my previous post late last night and forgot that there are many such pulses per second, not just one, and their frequency is  around 5.7 kHz at 2400 RPM.    RomeroUK was showing us just ONE output waveform from a particular coil he chose.   

I'll be doing new calculations soon.


[Edit]

Ok,  notice in my appended figure the superposed output waveforms for only 3 of the coils, shifted from each other in time. I only drew 3 as an example, but there are many more.  The output is not actualy a superposition of 9 of these waveforms, as they don't add like that because of the diode bridges (FWDB) for each coil, and the single output capacitor.


What I want to do now is to calculate the number of pulses per second going into the single output capacitor from all the coils firing in sequence.

To arrive at an approximate pulsing frequency, I ASSUME all coils are generator coils (2 are actualy motor coils),  and due to the 8/9 ratio,  every 5 degree turn of the rotor will bring another magnet and coil into alignment. 

So the number of coil/magnet alignments per rotation of the rotor is:   360 deg/ 5 deg = 72 alignments per rotation

(EDIT:   an interesting side note here:  If you divide the 72 alignments by 9 coils you get 8.  this means each coil participates in 8 alignments for each rotor rotation.  It also means that the virtual rotational speed of these alignments relative to the rotor is 8 times FASTER, or a virtual "gear ratio" of 1:8  )

Each alignment contributes 2 pulses into the output capacitor (from the + and - swings) so  now we have 2*72 = 144 pulses per rotation of the rotor.

At 2400 RPM we have 2400/60 = 40 rotations per second

Therefore, the pulsing frequency is  2*72*40 = 5760 Hz    or   5.7 kHz

This is the actual pulsing frequency if we would use all the 9 coils as generator coils.

Now, if we knew the actual time settings of his output waveform, then we can determine how much they overlap or don't overlap,  so I have a feeling the pulses might just occur right after each other, as we need to overlap 9 such pulses in one period, so each coil will pulse at around 1 amp but not 20 amps like I previously said.   And it's 1 amp and not 2, becasue there is a bottom pulse sequence that contributes half the power.

I hope that clearifies things.   And regarding the question of when current flows,  notice that each coils voltage needs to rise above the output capacitor voltage, in order for the coil current to flow into it.   RomeroUK showed us his light bulb operating at about 12 Volts and 2 amps,  so each waveform tops out at 12 volts, and that's when current flows, at the top of each peak, just during that short segment at the top of the peaks of the waveforms  (both top and bottom peaks)

EM



PS.   If we wanted a more accurate pulse count, taking into account the fact that two of the dynamo coils are actualy motor coils, and not participating in the generator process, we would have to subtract their missing contribution from the total pulses we calculated above as 5760 pulses.

So here's the calculations of the missing pulses:

8 alignments per rotation per coil x 2 coils = 16 alignments per rotation,  and
16 alignments x 2400 RPM/60 sec =  640 alignments per second, and since two pulses occur per alignment:
640 x 2 = 1280 missing pulses per second

therefore, the actual pulse frequency when 2 of the coils are motor coils is:

f  = 5760 - 1280 = 4480 pulses per second

[LtBolo]

I think the calculations are a bit more complicated than you think EM.

Your assumptions about the inductance and resulting time constant is based on a static inductance measurement. The problem is that the inductance of each gen coil is constantly changing as the coil enters and exits a magnetic field. When the ferrite gets hit with a strong field from a rotor magnet, it effectively saturates, lowering the inductance close to that of an air core. Toss in the field from the current being generated in the gen coil by the changing field and the field from the bias magnets, and you have inductance that is all over the map...rising and falling within the span of a single rotor magnet. It's a mess.

The other crazy weird aspect is that the changing inductance is also changing the current itself, in addition to the changing magnetic field changing the current...so the current is similarly unpredictable.

I think in the end it is going to be very hard to predict the behavior, and understanding is going to need to come more from empirical observation than a theoretical perspective. One sure thing though, when you get all of the elements that RomeroUK was using, you are bouncing all over the different quadrants. If there is any wrinkle to be exploited, he tested all of the possibilities...at once.

[EMdevices]

LtBolo,  I agree, calculations are a lot more complex, and I'm fully aware of that, you can be sure.   That's why what I'm calculating here is often prefaced with "approximate".    So yes, the ferrites are in the presence of the magnets and get cycled magneticaly back and forth, and their B-H curve is non-linear.   But how saturated the ferrites get, I'm not sure, since the biasing magnets counteract the moving magnets, so yes, the whole motor is quite complex, but not beyond the modeling capabilities of advanced software like teslaalset is using.  You might think these calculations are useless stuff, but us engineers live and breathe calculations every day.  I just happen to be an open minded type of electrical engineer (EE) that belives we don't know everything there is to know.   

I also agree that experimentation is key, but consider the fact that current theory is nothing more than the sum of the knowledge and wisdom extracted from lots of past experiments, and quite valuable !  Any new experiments that challenge the established theory should be scrutinized to see why?  And when the why is answered, new exceptions to the rule will be discovered and the theory revised.  Science in progress !   

So, I'm just calculating the simpler things first, because it helps me to have more insight into this motor.   

EM