PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?

[hyiq]

@ hyiq

If you are using R3 to measure input current, I think it should be moved to be in series with the battery so that it is only measuring the battery current. And I think you should remove VR2 since it is shorted out by the grounds.

NOTE: Where you have it, R3 is only measuring a small part of the current coming into circuit since most of the current is going into the output ground.

Hi Gyula, sorry Xee2, I missed your suggestion.

I only have one scope. I only take one measurement at a time, so the Earth is not shorting anything out, rest assured.

I will move the Current Sense Resistor/Scope Probe points, as you mentioned. Please can you explain how and why you think there will be any current/Power that is not measured here? I dont understand why this may be? I have no Earth on one of my power cords for my scope if this is your concern. I have two power cords and one has an Earth and one has not. I have checked both. No visable change to the readings.

Please let me know what your thoughts are and I will be happy to change and retry the measurements.

My Replication Circuit V4 is attached.

All the best

  Chris

[JouleSeeker]

Hi e2matrix,

Yes.

My goals are:

1: Replicate this effect - done.
2: Understand this effect - In-progress.
3: Try to scale up this effect - TODO.
4: Self Power and power a Load - TODO.
[snip]

All the best.

  Chris

On the road (about 500 miles needed today), just wanted to say from the motel that I totally agree with these goals by Chris (Hyiq).  I'm so impressed by you guys who will jump in and do the replication then proceed with improvements and further tests.  Experimental science at its best, IMO -- and I would add to Chris' list:

5.  Experiments to determine just where the energy is coming from
(as with trying to understand high-temp superconductivity, this may take a while)
6.  Scale the system way up to provide power at the home-level.

Also, I agree with Chris on the importance of tuning as I also noted in the vid:

"I tune to get the lowest input power I can but get the LED as bright as I can."

Right!

[xee2]

Please can you explain how and why you think there will be any current/Power that is not measured here?

Hi Chris,

With R3 in the new position you are measuring all of the input current. Where you had it there would have been a ground loop around R3 if you had both grounds connected at the same time. This would have provided a path that bypassed R3. You have everything correct now. Thanks for posting such good schematics.

EDIT: LEDs do not obey ohms law. The voltage drop is set by the junction, not the current. So care must be used when measuring power with an LED in the load. I think you are doing this correctly, I am just giving a word of warning.

[gyulasun]

Hi Chris,

From my part, I was mainly concerned with the scope Earth shorting out R3 and VR2 when two probes used at the same time.

Regarding the position of current shunt R3, it is interesting...   

R3 and C3 (220uF) surely form an RC low pass filter and from AC point of view the AC voltage drop across R3 can only be very very small if I assume a similar inner impedance for the 4V battery or 4V supply like the 220uF has at the oscillator working frequency  i.e. I suppose also very low. 

If you reposition R3 as xee2 suggested, then the low pass filtering situation changes and the AC voltage drop across R3 can be higher than before, much closer to reality.

However, supposing  the current consumption of this oscillator only a few milliAmper (or less) then the best instrument to use for checking the DC voltage drop across an 0.1 Ohm resistor would be a DC (milli)Voltmeter and not really a scope, especially not a scope in your diagram shown in Reply# 153 above as you have got the low pass filter with R3C3. (at a few milliAmper draw even the DC voltage drop is very low but the AC voltage drop is much much lower than the DC due to the AC shunting effects of C3 and the 4V battery)
     I would check the DC voltage drop across R3 for polarity too with a DC multimeter in your present setup (maybe disconnect the scope completely from the circuit for the time using a handheld DC DMM).  And if you still find the polarity to be negative, then you surely have an interesting circuit... worth checking and testing further. 

Thanks,  Gyula

EDIT  just noticed you corrected the schematic in Reply# 153 too and repositioned R3 as xee2 suggested.  I mention this for those members who try to understand what we are talking about.... 

Hi Gyula, sorry Xee2, I missed your suggestion.

I only have one scope. I only take one measurement at a time, so the Earth is not shorting anything out, rest assured.

I will move the Current Sense Resistor/Scope Probe points, as you mentioned. Please can you explain how and why you think there will be any current/Power that is not measured here? I dont understand why this may be? I have no Earth on one of my power cords for my scope if this is your concern. I have two power cords and one has an Earth and one has not. I have checked both. No visable change to the readings.

Please let me know what your thoughts are and I will be happy to change and retry the measurements.

My Replication Circuit V4 is attached.

All the best

  Chris

[hyiq]

Hi All,

Thanks for your suggestions. This circuit is a very unusual circuit. I am still not sure on the whole thing. Sometimes it seems to be looking really good then other times it does not. It may be the latest Bi-Polar Circuit is not much to rave about as input current consumption does go up and this Bi-Polar circuit and it is not what we want it to do. We need to keep the current down for this effect.

I will take a fresh look tommorrow. Please keep the suggestions coming and if others are replicating please let us know your results.

@Gyula - Yes, I fixed as you Xee2 suggested. Would you suggest a diode on the negative rail? This may help any ripple? I am trying to measure only DC Voltage, but measure the AC Current as this does bounce around crazy at points. Not sure if the Bi-Polar circuit is any good yet. May be its a dud. It works, but give us the same effect, not yet anyway. 

All the best

  Chris