PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?

[hyiq]

Hi All,

Small modification to Circuit V7. This is to ensure the Input Voltage reading is correct and remembering Input Current will now be netigive so adjust when measuring the input.

All the best

  Chris

[TinselKoala]

You are not doing it right.

Your nice applet computations, to ridiculous false precision, are for strict DC and do not apply to the computation of power in signals that are ringing, oscillating and of very short duty cycles like you are measuring.
Taking the "Mean voltage" and the "Mean current" as computed by the scope, and multiplying them, does not give you anything meaningful for this signal.

The only valid way of measuring power for a signal of this type is to have your scope do a realtime, INSTANTANEOUS multiplication of the current and voltage values at each of its sampling instants. This resulting waveform will be your instantaneous power waveform, and it may be reasonably averaged..... but again, the "average power" is nearly useless for demonstrating any kind of COP or excess energy.

Note that last word: ENERGY. Only energy multiplication or production matters. And the ENERGY of this circuit, in and out, can be easily found, if you will only measure and compute the instantaneous power curve and then integrate it over a suitable time period.

And a note on precision: Your answer in any computation CANNOT be more precise than the LEAST precise of your input data. If you only know your voltage to the nearest millivolt, then your answer CANNOT POSSIBLY have twelve real digits of precision. In other words, the only thing you really know about a number like "254.54756382 milliwatts" is that it is... WRONG.

[hyiq]

You are not doing it right.

Your nice applet computations, to ridiculous false precision, are for strict DC and do not apply to the computation of power in signals that are ringing, oscillating and of very short duty cycles like you are measuring.
Taking the "Mean voltage" and the "Mean current" as computed by the scope, and multiplying them, does not give you anything meaningful for this signal.

The only valid way of measuring power for a signal of this type is to have your scope do a realtime, INSTANTANEOUS multiplication of the current and voltage values at each of its sampling instants. This resulting waveform will be your instantaneous power waveform, and it may be reasonably averaged..... but again, the "average power" is nearly useless for demonstrating any kind of COP or excess energy.

Note that last word: ENERGY. Only energy multiplication or production matters. And the ENERGY of this circuit, in and out, can be easily found, if you will only measure and compute the instantaneous power curve and then integrate it over a suitable time period.

And a note on precision: Your answer in any computation CANNOT be more precise than the LEAST precise of your input data. If you only know your voltage to the nearest millivolt, then your answer CANNOT POSSIBLY have twelve real digits of precision. In other words, the only thing you really know about a number like "254.54756382 milliwatts" is that it is... WRONG.

Hi TinselKoala,

You may have noticed, I am measuring nearly straight DC on the output. There is very little AC Wave, its more like a DC Ripple.

If you believe I am measuring this Circuit wrong please layout a guide for us to follow measuring it your way. I understand this circuit opens a bag of worms and is very tricky to measure and the only real way to prove OU is to simply make it self run.

What are you working on? It takes 5 minutes to build this Circuit, maybe yould like to throw it together and send us your results?

All the best

  Chris

[P.S. My Scope is taking an average of 128 Points in taking these measurements by the way. If this is still not correct, please let me know.]

[Bruce_TPU]

Hi TinselKoala,

You may have noticed, I am measuring nearly straight DC on the output. There is very little AC Wave, its more like a DC Ripple.

If you believe I am measuring this Circuit wrong please layout a guide for us to follow measuring it your way. I understand this circuit opens a bag of worms and is very tricky to measure and the only real way to prove OU is to simply make it self run.

What are you working on? It takes 5 minutes to build this Circuit, maybe yould like to throw it together and send us your results?

All the best

  Chris

Hi Chris,

Great job on your write up, circuit and build.  I would not respond to TinselKoala, but that is just me.  Long story.

I am in the middle of a build on a "mechanical" TPU, in nearly all of my spare time, in testing for our Solid State Version.  But I do have time to offer a couple of suggestions.

First, build a second circuit identical to this one and see if your measurements are also close to identical.  And then as you wrote, combine the outputs (336 mw) and loop to input.

What ideas do you have to scale it up, aside from what we discussed yesterday, shrinking it, etc.?

Cheers,

Bruce

[hyiq]

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the advise. I am always open to constructive suggestions, TinselKoala has not replied and I don't expect one now. Maybe he has looked at my data again and thought other wise?

The first thing I plan to do is up the input voltage, and up the turns on the coil. We have seen some huge differences in just a few windings so I will also keep experimenting with this also. Load components need to be increased also.

You are right, I need to build another circuit and replicate the same conditions in another circuit. I am in progress doing this now.

The Hyperfast Diodes made a big difference to the output, you can see it is nearly DC now. My Scope, if I up the Res, does see lots of DC Ripple but wow what a difference. Oh, they are soft recovery, so they may have slightly higher internal capacitance?

Thanks again for the encouragement!

All the best

  Chris

P.S. If anyone See's a mistake please let me know. Sometimes I work on this under tired wary conditions so like anyone I do make mistakes. I do try to always double check things however. A better way to do something is always a better way!