Arguments against Muller design

[TommeyLReed]

First Law of Thermodynamics

The amount of energy that is present before and after work is the same (scientist say energy is conserved). For example, let's say you drop a ball. Scientists can measure the energy before, during, and after the fall. The amount of energy remains constant throughout the process. Likewise when an object is thrown or a spring released or something is burned, the energy can be measured. This is the reason behind the first law of thermodynamics, Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only be converted from one form to another; scientists have found that the amount of energy in a closed system remains constant.

The following set of statements are various ways of expressing the first law of thermodynamics:

* Energy is conserved.
* The amount of energy in the universe is constant.
* Energy can be neither created nor destroyed.
* There is no free lunch.
* It is impossible to build a machine that produces more energy than it uses (This type of machine is called a perpetual motion machine of the first kind.)

Second Law of Thermodynamics

During energy transfers, it might seem that energy does go away or become reduced. For example, a bouncing ball stops bouncing, a battery dies, or a car runs out of fuel. The energy still exists but it has become so spread out that it is essentially unavailable. Burning a piece of wood releases light and thermal energy (commonly called heat). The light and heat become dispersed and less useful. Another way to describe this process is to say the energy is concentrated in the wood (chemical energy), and becomes less concentrated in the forms of thermal and light energy.

Let's return to the frantic cat in the room with the puzzle. Although you might be able to find all the pieces of the puzzle after the cat's actions, you cannot put the puzzle completely back together. Some pieces have been bent, others torn, and some the cat, well, use your imagination. In other words, although the quantity of the puzzle remains the same, its quality has been compromised. This cat story is a rough analogy to the second law of thermodynamics.

The following set of statements are various ways of expressing the second law of thermodynamics:

* With each energy conversion from one form to another, some of the energy becomes unavailable for further use.
* Heat cannot flow from a cold object to a hot object on its own.
* It is impossible to convert heat energy into work with 100 percent efficiency.
* You cannot break even.
* It is impossible to build a machine that produces as much energy as it uses. (This type of machine is called a perpetual motion machine of the second kind.)
* The entropy of the universe tends to a maximum.

[xenomorphlabs]

Why can't anyone build this unit and work? I will tell you why, it won't work because you can not get more energy then what you have put in. Why would anyone think this simple unit would create more energy? We understand these law of energy, and yet some people want to believe in this free energy unit. I wish this to be true, but the theory's don't hold up with common sense......

You might wanna educate yourself on the numerous violations of the 2nd law of thermodynamics. In that context, reading Tom Bearden's literature will illustrate that.
If you wanna discuss devices that don`t violate the 2nd law, it is advisable to direct your attention to other forums that discuss ordinary mechanical devices.
There you also won't be "wasting" your energies.

A point where to start is your statement:

It is impossible to build a machine that produces as much energy as it uses

For a device to be overunity, it is not required that the device itself produces the energy. If you correctly look at an open system, then the additional energy is being put into it by the environment. That energy was already there, just you didn't have to pay for it. No violation of the law of conservation of energy at all. Examples are the often mentioned heat-pump, a system including a solar panel or a windmill.

[Pirate88179]

Energy in should always equal energy out, minus losses right?  But, consider that the energy in might be from some other "unknown" source.  Like solar for example.  We now know it is the sun but, if years ago we built a solar cell and input 0, and got 12 volts out, it would be amazing.

Possibly this device taps into other energy sources that would satisfy the 2nd law of themodynamics.  Same with the Joule Thief and the Stubblefield earth battery.

Bill

[TommeyLReed]

Very simple, prove it! Stop making claims or theory's, it just makes you look very foolish!

[Pirate88179]

Very simple, prove it! Stop making claims or theory's, it just makes you look very foolish!

Ummm....there are many smart folks and very good replicators attempting to do just that.  Stand by is all I can say.

Bill