A perpetual energy concept.

[stevensrd1]

Here is a video where I show an infra red led light shining on a solar panel which powers the solar panel which then powers a led. My concept is to take the infra led light put it in a joule thief. Shine that infra led light then on the solar panel,,and send the power from the solar panel back to the battery of the joule thief to keep it recharged. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUrHP-ZMnNI

[Poit]

I like the concept, but the biggest problem I see here is this - solar panels range from 8% to 22% efficiency (I think they CAN go as high as 30%, but that's very high end, military types)... I think most panels are between 14% and 18%.

My point is, just this alone (the efficiency) should not allow this idea to work...

All that said, I am interested to see your results!

Poit

Oh by the way, you don't need that fancy box thingy, an infra-red led works much the same as a normal led... should be fairly easy to test your theory, just get a 1.5volt battery (i.e AA battery), put a duel pole switch in line with a infra-red led (one pole of the switch goes to the battery, and the other pole goes to the output of the solar panel) and whack a joule thief in there and bobs ya uncle .... switch to pole one (battery) then switch to pole two and see if it can self sustain... maybe a capacitor in there somewhere to level the power out...

[sm0ky2]

the rated "efficiency" of a solar panel can be a very misleading concept.
This rating is based on the theoretical (estimated) value of the energy
available from natural sunlight on a clear day.
Watts per square meter vs output of the solar cell and its surface area

this energy includes all spectrums of light and heat coming from the sun, not just the frequencies that are readily absorbed by the solar cell.

If the light directed to the cell is primarily within the spectrum that is used by the cell to create electricity, then the conversion efficiency is increased greatly.

This was demonstrated with experiments using electrostatic discharge and solar cells. electrostatic discharge carries  well established energy equations, potential difference x surface area of the charge object
and power levels are generally very very small.
However , the photoluminescense produced by a discharge in open air, allows for the photovoltaic conversion of greater than 2,000% efficiency using a wide range of industry standard cells. Most of the light produced from such a discharge is in the visible spectrum.

I'll briefly touch on "why" this occurs, then we'll get back to the topic.....   When air molecules (most notibly oxygen) become ionized, they release photons, xrays, and other forms of radiation as their electrons fluxuate in energy levels. This is similar to "cold fusion", as the result is often a combination of O+ ions and O2 moleclues, forming O3 (ozone). And a great deal of energy is released in the reaction.
Much of this energy is in the form of photons. Thus, the photoluminescence of an electrostatic discharge contains thousands of times more energy than is available from the charge imbalance alone.

Now, back to the conversion of light to electricity::::::::

    if we use an LED circuit, that converts electricity into light
all one has to do is examine the function-curve chart to see the time-related light production when the LED is switched "on".
and tune your circuit to utilyze this time-curve for planned on/off switching of the LED, that results in a constant output of light energy from a pulsed DC input. This reduces the ammount of energy required to produce the same ammount of light. And ( i believe) is why joule thieves are able to perform many of the "LED tricks" that we can do with them.
This shows that the standard calculations for the conversion of electricity into light that describe the function of the Light emmitting diode, are Incorrect. The diode in fact, has a capaticance value which is not usually accounted for.
once the diode switches "on", if power is cut, the diode continues to discharge until the light stops being produced. - this is where the extra light energy comes from.

it does not appear in the circuit, because the diode is switched "off" during this time (open). it is simply passing from inside the diode, out through the light-emmiter. So we see that operating an LED at constant DC power, we are wasting a great deal of energy that just passes through the diode, once it is at full lumiescense.

Adjust the input waveform to match a mean-luminescent value along the time-curve, and you begin to get a more accurate depiction of energy to light conversion. Thus the "efficiency" of the solar cell begins to take on a whole new meaning.

With this approach, you can then place the solar-cell, and LED in an enclosed, reflective container, at close proximity. designed such as to reflect escaped light back onto the cell.

and carefully measure the input into the joule thief, by placing a scope across the collector and emmiter of the primary transistor, while it is operating, to get the current waveform.

and measure the DC output of the solar cell,
the input will be a pulsed DC value, (current is a square wave, for the most part)
     using the measured battery voltage,
     and the mean-current over time x (1/2 peak average ~ +/- )
     to get the power input over the measuring time.
the output is just a DC over time x
may help to convert both into WattSecs or WattHrs for comparison and sharing the information.
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and a "supercap" placed in parallell with the LED, and a resistor back to the Joulethief, should allow you to switch the battery out with a SPST switch, then remove the battery and allow it to continue operating on its own indefinately (or run out of energy trying....)

[sm0ky2]

One suggestion would be to look at the manufacturing specs of both the LED and the solar cell
to find the best match of compatible light spectrums,
for maximum conversion of all of the light

and perhaps a prism.......

[Mr. M]

I like the concept, but the biggest problem I see here is this - solar panels range from 8% to 22% efficiency (I think they CAN go as high as 30%, but that's very high end, military types)... I think most panels are between 14% and 18%.

http://www.goodcleantech.com/2011/05/90_percent_efficient_solar_pan.php