4X3 Permanent Magnet Motor concept

[acp]

This doesn't work, I had almost exactly the same idea last year, built a model..... It just sat there. It cogs if you turn it by hand, but basically It completely balances out. Changing the air gap won't make any difference.

[Gregory]

Hi Tishatang and all!

I want to say it's basically a very good idea, but of course have many troubles.
I'm working on a geometrically similar 4x3 design, but not the same as this. My new magnets arrived few days before, and now I'm testing different setups with my previous unworkable prototype, used as a testing tool.

4x3 geometry has interesting properties, but the geometry itself is not enough.

Until this day I don't have any success. So I was very disappointed and depressed.
I had a setup before, wich looked almost work, but of course didn't, it cogged. When I changed the position of one magnet by 1-2 millimeters, it became workable for that area, and spinned through the sticky spot. But the problem is, when I change the position of one magnet I brake the geometry, and this makes it also unworkable. And of course 1 or 2 millimeters is a long lenght if you are working with magnets.

I designed all my ideas to have only one sticky spots per stator magnet at the entering point to the field of the stator. I designed more than 50 setups from the last winter to this time, tested the best ones, and I still don't have "the great workable design".

This day I feel a bit better. I tested an attractive design, partly with my hand. I tested many times the same movement, and saw something interesting.
A rotor magnet attracted to a stator magnet, and when it wants to stop (due its attraction), another rotor magnet entered to a position, where another stator magnet attracted this second rotor magnet and free the first (cogging) rotor magnet, and pull it farther from its lock point, and finally the second magnet cogged. But what if, I add a third... and close the geometry...?
I tested this many times with these 4 magnets. They all fixed in the same geometry, except the one in my hand.
This experiment makes me hoping a little, maybe it is possible to make it self-running, but i don't know. It has many troubles to work with this. Of course it also has very low torque.

Tishatang. I work with small neo magnets. My design has only one sticky spot at the entering point of the stator. If I think right your design has two, at the entering, and at the exiting points. But... Your design has much more force than my. I tested it with the same magnets I use.
So I think this theory really worth to try. But every sizes, dimensions, and proportions are very important. I think little changes can makes it workable or totally unworkable. There are big differences between two unworkable device. "Fighting" with geometry... It's really not easy.

Another good geometries for this: (rotor / stator)
5/3; 3/9 or 9/3;

Every geometrical setup has a best proportion, and a best diameter for the stator to rotor ratio. If you use wrong proportions, it looks really not good, but when it set into the right relation, it looks interesting.
I think the actual pictures are not bad.

Every geometrical ratio possible for the number of locked magnets per the number of working magnets. In this design at least 1 magnet always cog, and 3 other want to move it through. It is possible to use 1 vs. 6, or 1 vs. 8, but it is not instantly mean the design become workable if you add more and more working rotor magnet, because when you increase this proportion, you must increase the lenght of the stator magnets, and the force they are producing in the middle areas become smaller and smaller, and the same time the sticky spots become stronger and stronger.

Anyway, I think this is a good idea.
Good luck to experiment with it!

Best wishes,
Greg

[tishatang]

Hi Greg and Gregory,

Thanks for your detailed response.  I appreciate the feedback.
Yes, if you look at my design from a static standpoint, there are two sticky points, one entering and one leaving.  However, dynamically, the acceleration thru the gate was much more than any retarding pull by the magnetic fluxes.  Otherwise, the neo rod would not have scooted off the desk.

I have a philosophical  question:

Would the world be better off with a permanent magnet motor that self-ran, but was so delicate, it could produce no work,

Or, a cheap to make, compact pulse motor, that could be retro-fitted to the front wheel of a bicycle, and maybe give you a range of 75 miles instead of 20 miles?  How many consumer/commuters would choose the latter?

Maybe the pulse mode is the way to go!

Thanks,
Tishatang

[Gregory]

Hi Tishatang!

Very good question!

Of course, I think the function and the usability always have primary importance. So, when we are thinking only in present time I choose the latter, like many people do. But... If we are not consider present time only, and thinking without such limits I choose the first, the so delicate self-running magnetic toy. Because it has great scientific importance, wich makes it more important than (almost) every pulse motor.
And on the other hand, once a permanent magnetic motor become workable, It's just a question of hard work,  designing, and technology to make it stronger and stronger to turn into a really useful device.

However a pulse motor with good efficiency is absolutely viable, and its reality is unquestionable. Unlike the permanet magnet motor, wich branded to impossible by most of the physicists and scientists of nowadays.

But I like things believed as impossible.   I'm more an artist than an engineer. And if I think I have a good idea, I feel it's my role to try and make it real if it's possible. If my mind is enough I will do it, but if it isn't enough, then anybody other will do it in the future, I'm pretty sure.

Just wait and see... One day sombody will do the "impossible", it's sure. And I'm not a believer. 

Thanks,
Greg

[hartiberlin]

You would probably need special iron
cores to get this motor to work.
Just with magnets it will not work,
simular designs we had already tested years
ago...