Kundel Motor

[Liberty]

Jake noticed the same thing I did about Kundel making no claims to OU.  What he has done is given us another way to look at magnets and motors.  I think we'll get this thing down once we have the right perspective.  I'm pretty sure it will be a mechanical method of opening and closing the gate to go full circle. At least until we get slicker at manipulating fields.

I have assembled a basic Kundel motor to study the effect.  (Without the actuator coil.)  I assembled a sliding apparatus to hold the actuators and moved them back and forth with my hands.  It pays to "feel" what magnets are doing. 

What I have gathered from my plastic version is that the faster it goes, the less distance the actuator has to move.  I would imagine that once a motor like this gets up to a certain speed, you would only need something like a vibration or sound wave or some other kind of micro-pulse to keep the actuator moving "in rythm" so to speak.  Just using my hands, I have to start off moving it back and forth about an inch.  After about 12-15 rotations, I only have to use the slightest movement to keep accelerating until it goes too fast for me to keep rhythm.  Add a flywheel and there could be some decent torque in addition to high rpm's.  Although I can appreciate the Sprain design, it seems to limit its rpm's by it's inherent design.  The Kundel motor just wants to go faster! 

We need something that starts off vibrating "big" as far as amplitude and low in frequency and then ends up "small" in amplitude and fast in frequency.  I imagine a sound like the beginning of "THX" movies. 

I'm thinking of hooking a speaker up to the actuator and slowly bending a low frequency note up in pitch until the motor max's out.  Even if I have to kick start it to get it to the point where it will self accelerate off of about 20-30 hz.  I know from running sound that you need way less wattage to run midrange speakers and tweeters that you do for the low freq subwoofers.  Eventually, you could go supersonic in frequency and use a less and less energy in theory, right?  So with a flywheel and possible "Supersonic" capabilities, the puppy might be able to rock the house!   

Thoughts?
     
K~ 

What this motor demonstrates is a way to run a magnet motor that was said to be "not useful" because it has a moving part.  It shows that what was once thought of not practical to do, has now become useful towards acheiving a motor that extracts motion from magnets using very little power.  That is what I have done with my motor too.  Electric motors are stronger, but you can still achieve motion with less power using magnets in your motors.

Is there a way to show a design without the concern that someone will take it and patent it and call it theirs? 

Liberty

[jake]

In the US they use a provisional patent as a way to date your idea while you decide whether to patent it.  It becomes the official date of recod in disputes, I think.  If you really think you are on to something you should file for provisional at least.  I think you have one year of "protection" with it, and it is relatively inexpensive.

[Liberty]

In the US they use a provisional patent as a way to date your idea while you decide whether to patent it.  It becomes the official date of recod in disputes, I think.  If you really think you are on to something you should file for provisional at least.  I think you have one year of "protection" with it, and it is relatively inexpensive.

Thanks Jake,

I'll look into it.

Liberty

[gn0stik]

Ok I noticed something interesting about his motor. I don't know if anyone else looked at the pics on the front page of his web site, or if  you just looked at the movies and animations. The pics show something that is more revealing than the movies do. Take a close look at the input power under load/no load conditions. This gives you a HUGE clue as to why he uses a voice coil instead of some other electromechanical device. It actually draws LESS power under load than it does without one, think about that one for a minute. This guy is brilliant. A voice coil does EXACTLY the same amount of work regardless of load. So I wrote him an email to confirm it. He's very careful about making any claims as to the power output of his device. That I'm sure will remain unchanged, and I for one commend him for it. IF his device is OU(and I'm not saying that it is), that will kill it quicker than anything, as those types of claims have killed every OU device to come down the pike thus far. We will probably NEVER see output readings. However his input readings are very interesting. I'm going to build one regardless of whether or not it is OU. I just think it will be a great learning experience, and fun to boot. Besides, it's the only way to find out.

Hey, I just found your web site for the Kundel Motor.. Very interesting design. Couple of questions however, how can it possibly draw less power UNDER LOAD than not? That?s mind boggling. Also could it be possible to power it via DC as opposed to AC? I?m assuming the voice coil is critical, no servos or other linear devices would work and have the same effect under load? I don?t know anything about voice coils so I don?t know if they can be powered via DC. I assume so since boom boxes have speakers in them, and they are DC. Unless they rectify the VDC to ADC. I?m thinking about starting a motor project of my own after seeing this. Also, what kind of ouput power are you seeing? How efficient is this type of electric motor verses a typical electric coil/mag motor?

Rich

The load is not directly connected to the solenoid. The solenoid is pulling in or pushing out, it does the exact same work (pushing / pulling the reciprocating magnets) every reciprocation load or no load. The load is between the reciprocating magnets and the rotor magnets attached to the axle.  Torque is comparable to a 30+ watt fan motor, but the second prototype is not a good test bed, was built for determining magnet spacing (reciprocators and rotors), and the voice coil's air gap is massive.  Starting third prototype for testing.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Engineering_Acoustics/Moving_Coil_Loudspeaker

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/speaker5.htm

Sincerely

Stephen Kundel

[Liberty]

Ok I noticed something interesting about his motor. I don't know if anyone else looked at the pics on the front page of his web site, or if  you just looked at the movies and animations. The pics show something that is more revealing than the movies do. Take a close look at the input power under load/no load conditions. This gives you a HUGE clue as to why he uses a voice coil instead of some other electromechanical device. It actually draws LESS power under load than it does without one, think about that one for a minute. This guy is brilliant. A voice coil does EXACTLY the same amount of work regardless of load. So I wrote him an email to confirm it. He's very careful about making any claims as to the power output of his device. That I'm sure will remain unchanged, and I for one commend him for it. IF his device is OU(and I'm not saying that it is), that will kill it quicker than anything, as those types of claims have killed every OU device to come down the pike thus far. We will probably NEVER see output readings. However his input readings are very interesting. I'm going to build one regardless of whether or not it is OU. I just think it will be a great learning experience, and fun to boot. Besides, it's the only way to find out.

Hey, I just found your web site for the Kundel Motor.. Very interesting design. Couple of questions however, how can it possibly draw less power UNDER LOAD than not? That?s mind boggling. Also could it be possible to power it via DC as opposed to AC? I?m assuming the voice coil is critical, no servos or other linear devices would work and have the same effect under load? I don?t know anything about voice coils so I don?t know if they can be powered via DC. I assume so since boom boxes have speakers in them, and they are DC. Unless they rectify the VDC to ADC. I?m thinking about starting a motor project of my own after seeing this. Also, what kind of ouput power are you seeing? How efficient is this type of electric motor verses a typical electric coil/mag motor?

Rich

The load is not directly connected to the solenoid. The solenoid is pulling in or pushing out, it does the exact same work (pushing / pulling the reciprocating magnets) every reciprocation load or no load. The load is between the reciprocating magnets and the rotor magnets attached to the axle.  Torque is comparable to a 30+ watt fan motor, but the second prototype is not a good test bed, was built for determining magnet spacing (reciprocators and rotors), and the voice coil's air gap is massive.  Starting third prototype for testing.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Engineering_Acoustics/Moving_Coil_Loudspeaker

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/speaker5.htm

Sincerely

Stephen Kundel

I think Stephen Kundel uses a voice coil because it is a much faster device and uses less power because of the magnetic assist to the voice coil, than a solenoid for the puposes of his motor.  Also, he only drives it one direction to save power consumption.  50% duty cycle.  On this design, the faster that the motor goes, the less time the voice coil is turned on to drive the magnets into position. 

I don't really care what kind of claims he makes, over unity or not, as that does not change the motor operation at all in my mind.  I just focus on the ability of the invention rather than the character of the inventor and find the motor design interesting using magnets on a rotor and a stator.  It has to use less power than a comparable electric motor of high efficiency for the amount of work accomplished per watt used, because of the use of magnets to assist in rotation is replacing electric power consumption that would occur in a standard electric motor.  It is on the right path and idea to producing more power than it consumes in my opinion.  Perhaps Stephen Kundel will put a small generator/alternator on his motor and compare power in to power out to answer the question for us.

Liberty