Was Bessler for real?

[johnny874]

   @All,
This is where being able to post and think through idea's has helped me.
The drawing shows how Mt 20 can work.
http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Image:Mt_020.gif
The drawing I am attaching shows how with the description of warped boards
and a weight landing on a warped board or short plank can work.
The short lever or scissor would have a pulley at the end of it. This would allow it
to roll on the back side of a warped board. as the wheel rotates, the long lever would
exert more pressure on the scissor. When the point where the pulley is has closed the
warped board, the weight would land on a short board extending from the warped board.
The short warped board would reinforce the shape of the warped board, structural support.
This basic design would be for a small wheel such as I might be building. Unlike Alan, I do
not need to build to know. I accept that Bessler was successful.
There would be a short post such as the one at the 3 o'clock position. This would be for
guides attached to the warped board. This would help to keep all the mechanics in alignment.
The drawing I did shows about a 1.5 to 1 ratio. If the weight on the lever were 1.5 times as much as the water, then it would be a 3 to 1 ratio. Bessler said to make 3 stones fly as 1 and then go lightly.
Be it as it may, rlortie and Ab Hammer have criticized me for bilding some of Bessler's drawings as they do not believe there is a working wheel in them. And this last statement contradicts what Bessler himself is quoted as saying. And of course alan will say I am lying.
I can link to my account at photobucket.com that shows some of my work which was open source. It's what has helped me along with my schooling and work experience to understand this. It is not by accident that I happened to learn how Bessler's wheel worked.
And water or light oil would work better than mercury. With something like mercury, it could create a fracture point in the warped boards which could eventually cause it to break.
Hope you all have a Merry Christmas.

                                                                              Jim

p.s. the drawing is about 1/2 scale for a 20 inch in diameter or about a 58 cm wheel.
it's designed to use about 12 ounces of water or about 21 cubic inches.

edited to add; as the warped boards close, the water is pumped upwards. As a result, the wheel rotates making the next weight to put more pressure on the warped board it's scissor is pushing against. And then it repeats again and agian and again and agian. Rather boring if you think about it   
And Alan, if you and Ralph want, you guys can build it. After all, it is Bessler's wheel and Germany would probaly have the rights to it. Historical artifact and all that. Your a lawyer, you should know this stuff.
But will it make us friends ? Nope. It just depends if you guys dislike me more than you like Bessler. Only building will tell.

                                                                             Bye

[johnny874]

   @All,
Almost forgot, in Mt 20, Bessler said to tether your horse in front (the direction
you want it to go).
With this design, the weight on the long lever would be tethered.
Prevent breakage, etc. When it goes over top center, it would fall towards the hub.
This is where tethering it would limit it's motion and possibly help maintain the imbalance of the wheel.

                                                                         Jim

[AB Hammer]

And Alan, if you and Ralph want, you guys can build it. After all, it is Bessler's wheel and Germany would probaly have the rights to it. Historical artifact and all that. Your a lawyer, you should know this stuff.
But will it make us friends ? Nope. It just depends if you guys dislike me more than you like Bessler. Only building will tell.

                                                                             Bye

I see you changed your lever since I said something about your picture in post 59 on page 4. What I said was on page 5 post 60 about it. But now your change needs a roller on the short end to lessen the friction. But a good change.  Just some advice from a real builder.

First off with this quoted statement of yours make no since except highlighted in red. But make us friends?? where did that come from? What little early friendship died a long time ago when you couldn't follow reasoning and got nasty on Bessler wheel forum.  And when I tried to be nice you on forums, you told stories about me and you will never stop. This I have accepted and most everyone else has as well I believe.

[AB Hammer]

I am not up on all the gravity stuff that is being tried, and well I probably never will be but I have not heard of any person making a very simple observation about mass falling under the influence of gravity, never making the observation that even when the mass is moving up it is applying a force down that can be used while you are lifting the mass back up, pulling it up by it's own bootstraps if you will.

Lets say you have a chain loop running over a sprocket, on this chain you hang a mass, as gravity pulls down on the mass it also pulls the chain turning the sprocket, now if you have a lifting device on the mass which reaches up the chain and grabs hold and lifts the mass back up you have allowed for two things to happen, first is that the input value from the mass is continuous, no stop in applied force, and second you have opened the system up to allow for an outside force to enter the system.  So the lifting mechanism is something like a spring loaded arm that is stretched up and the spring pulls the mass up, the force the spring needs to apply is the same force that the mass gives while it is falling, an even trade but the mass is still pulling and falling while you are lifting it back up, maybe something extra can be had there?

If this has been talked about then excuse my interuption and ignorance.

Tom Webb

Greetings Tom

To have a wheel seam to power its self, by using the effect of gravity is the goal. What we find is anything that has to be use to make these movements ( the falling weight) have to be more powerful to make the second of shifting movement of like weight. The weight's value tend to cancel each other out. That is why the quest is so hard and called impossible by science. There has to be something else that we have missed. Bessler did it back in the early 18th century I fully believe. That is why the study of Bessler is part of our quest. It is impossible to prove a design is Bessler's but a running wheel will validate Bessler's success for his time. The quest in its self is fascinating and you always want to keep in mind. It is not always the journeys end but what you learn on the way.

Alan

[johnny874]

I see you changed your lever since I said something about your picture in post 59 on page 4. What I said was on page 5 post 60 about it. But now your change needs a roller on the short end to lessen the friction. But a good change.  Just some advice from a real builder.

First off with this quoted statement of yours make no since except highlighted in red. But make us friends?? where did that come from? What little early friendship died a long time ago when you couldn't follow reasoning and got nasty on Bessler wheel forum.  And when I tried to be nice you on forums, you told stories about me and you will never stop. This I have accepted and most everyone else has as well I believe.

  Alan,
>> But now your change needs a roller on the short end to lessen the friction. But a good change <<

Read what I posted. I said it did.

>> What little early friendship died a long time ago when you couldn't follow reasoning and got nasty on Bessler wheel forum. <<

I think when you post I am the ultimate fraud would show I was never your friend.
http://besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4656

and someone posted this thread. Doubt it was your wife Alan.
>> There are few individuals that get me irate on this site when they abuse my husband's intelligence for those people your not allow to do that, only I am, it is in my marriage contract so unless you want to marry my hubby back off. << 

   I mean really, you will openly call someone who has openly built a fraud.
Using staionary arms;
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae278/bessler_supporter/Picture0121.jpg)
Using moveable levers/arms
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae278/bessler_supporter/23levers.gif)
Bessler's clue of the child's toy
http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Image:Mt_138-141.gif
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae278/bessler_supporter/Mt24mod1.jpg)


As you just mentioned, a real builder would put a roller at the end of the lever.
What I posted, lines 6 & 7.
>> The short lever or scissor would have a pulley at the end of it. This would allow it
to roll on the back side of a warped board. <<
I think this is why I do not like you.
Be it as it may Alan, I have never seen you build anything. NEVER.
Yet you criticize my efforts because openly building gives me something to talk about with other people. And as you told me and whorton both, you will build our ideas, but you will also show they won't work. You always have that caveat in it for yourself.
Don't need your help Alan as you do not recognize my education and work experience.

                                                                           Jim

edited to add; Alan, when I was being treated for cancer, you would not allow me to discuss the build I was working on. Why we will never be friends.