Was Bessler for real?

[johnny874]

The mechanism for lifting the mass back up can be done in many different ways, how that is done is not the observation I have attempted to convey, what is is that if the mass is lifted from the "chain" by something attached to the "chain" then the mass is always giving input to the system whereas  when you allow the mass to go over to the other side of the system it can no longer add to the system while it is being lifted, the mass can multitask if you allow it to.

   Hi Tom,
In the thread "Bessler's Other Wheel ?", the idea of 2 levers at 90 degrees is something that can gain extra force with the use of a spring by it pulling laterally.
With 2 pendulums, one could be lifting one weight while the other weight is powering your wheel. How ever you consider it, it does need to start as a closed loop system that feeds itself.

                                                                                    Jim

[christo4_99]

Most people have "reason" to believe that Bessler was a fraud . You are on the well beaten path . If you can achieve little in addition to making a turd from your regular meals you have"reason" to believe that Bessler was a fraud . If you hope to achieve something rare you must yourself have something rarely seen in these circles . It is obvious to anyone following Bessler that one aspect in which he could be considered a rare type of person is his articulation of written word . This points me toward his authenticity , that is , among many other things . The reason you are not willing to accept what the man has claimed and written about is you know very little of the subject which you are so opinionated about .

[johnny874]

I love playing with mechanical devices and setups.

I have reason to believe that Bessler was a fraud, not in that his device did not work but rather in the actual wheel and what it did.  I am feeling that the wheel itself was deliberately over hyped to help hide what he was doing.

I need to play more with what I think might be the trick before I say much, usually when I get like this I am wrong due to missing something really stupid, but I am thinking what I have already said might lead to the answer.

   Tom,
I hope you don't mind if I took some liberties with your concept.
It is well known that Bessler built clocks as well as mills. What you
might find interesting is how your idea could fit in with what is
known about Bessler and his work.
Pendulum clocks have a line wrapped around a drum. The line
supports the weight that powers the clock. If the bottom point
of scissors were attached to the line, then if a point on the scissors
were lifted 5cm's, the total lifted with 2 sections would be 20 cm's.
By having a spring help to reset the drum, the counter weight would
weigh less. This would allow for more net force. I am not sure if a
second pendulum would be necessary. But just as a falling weight
powers the movement of the clock, like wise it could power a wheel.

                                                                    Jim

p.s. usually when someone makes a stupid statement like "I think my idea will lead to a Bessler Wheel", it is stupid. In your case, you might be right.
And no, I don't think you missed anythng. Idea's take time to get them right.

edited to add; the hoist might be able to be located next to the drum. The drawing is just
a basic concept trying to advance Tom's work a little bit.  Jim

[johnny874]

Please feel free to modify anything I may posit for consideration, things are often better with more eyes and thoughts working together.

the hoist could be located anywhere except inside the wheel.

I am the first one to admit that 90% of what I come up with is flawed or incorrect, but then those missteps lead to another observation that I might not of made without them

  Ya know, with what I'm working on, I'm still learning how to build it. Then again, when's the last time someone did something like this ? Bessler would be it.
I figured out what the spring is for, it's for tension. This way, when the weight is allowed to drop, the line is already under load.
Other wise, when the weight drops, it might fall some before the line becomes taught.

                                                                                                                        Jim

[johnny874]

For me the idea is the easier part, I mean coming up with something to try is not so hard but then I have to think not just *how* to build it, but how *I* can build it with the things I have available.

Here is a trick I learned decades ago for when you take the belt off of the water pump before you undo the bolts that hold the pulley to the water pump, it is simple but only works within a discrete angle:

Put your wrench or socket on the bolt and bring the handle across the center shaft now the force you are going to apply is at 90 degrees to the handle, not in an arc as in trying to apply the torque to the bolt.  The applied force from you attempts to rotate the center shaft in the opposite direction and that creates the torque in the correct direction to deal with the bolt, you can also use this to undo lug nuts when you have already jacked the car up and taken the tire off of the ground.  You will need to play with the exact offset angle relative to the center shaft to make it work best, I do it without thinking about it and so when I do try and think about I just confuse myself

   Tom,
That's kind of why I'm glad we have serpentine belts now. And they use a spring loaded tensioner.
  Right now, I am working on a board warping fixture. I think it could take me a couple of months to warp boards so will start with that.
With your idea, I have thought of something. I call them half moon gears but they might have a proper name. It's gears that are not a full 360 degrees. This could allow them to engage another gear and when desired, move free of it. This could be the trick to lifting a scissor and then releasing it.
The idea would be to lift the scissors/weight at the start of the downward swing. Then the pendulum could swing free. And of course, since the weight is rotating the drum, it could be seen how much extra force it can generate.
And what works in one direction should work in the other direction as well.
                                                                         Jim