Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[MileHigh]

Synchro1 and Crazycut06:

You know the old cliche, you have to be very careful about what you read on the Internet.

The "Tesla bifilar electromagnet" stuff is bogus.  Have either of you done the experiment?  There is no reason that it should work.

I explained that the strength of a magnetic field for an electromagnet is determined by the ampere-turns.  In that document you can see that both wire configurations around the nail will give you the same number of ampere-turns.  Therefore both electromagnets will have the same strength.

Here is a big clue about the quality of the web site:

The same amount of voltage, from the same battery, produces twice as much energy in the bifilar wound coil as in the single wound coil.  This is just one of the many techniques Nikola Tesla used to make his inventions highly efficient.

The magnetic field is not produced by voltage, the magnetic field is produced by current.  It's a subtle difference but it is still significant.  If the guy or girl that put up that web page really knew what they are talking about they would not have made that mistake.  Likewise, there is no "production of energy" associated with this, it's completely wrong to state that.  They use the term "efficient" without qualifying it so it is meaningless.  They are just using Tesla's name to make some money.

Because of this you should be very wary of that web site.  To me it looks like a junk web site created in the year 2000.  It just sits there to get some hits so that it can generate a bit of advertising revenue when people click through the ads.

If you don't believe me about the "Tesla bifilar windings" for an electromagnet, by all means do some testing yourself.  You will quickly come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter if the wiring is "bifilar,"  the only thing that counts is the ampere-turns.

If you don't believe me and won't be doing the tests, then please explain why a "Tesla bifilar winding" to make an electromagnet is better than ordinary winding.  After all, when you think about it there is no real difference between the windings.  The "bifilar" business is the same deal as the graphic that Synchro1 posted for the "bifilar" coil.  It's just an interleaved wiring of the coil, it's not truly bifilar.

The real point is that it's important to consider all the information coming at you and look at it in a logical fashion and evaluate it on a case-by-case basis.  There is a lot of junk information out there no matter what you are researching.  So you want to try to separate out the good information from the junk information.

MileHigh

[synchro1]

@MileHigh,

            Why don't you perform the experiment to expose it as fake? You're the "Gadfly" in the face of basic fundamentals practically everyone else already learned about. 

              The coil increases the field strength without the increased current draw as you infer, or no one would have any use for the coil design. How do you explain it's broad industrial application as an electromagnet. if there's no advantage to it?

This is a quote:


                 "Bifilar windings are used at metal scrap yards as electromagnets since they do more work per kwh".

You infer that the bifilar coil would draw twice the current as the single wrap coil of equal Ohms, if both coils were shorted accross input electrodes! Explain how the bifilar coil magicly doubles it's resistance to consume twice the current? You're saying one of those nail core coils has twice the resistance as the other with the same wire length. Think about it!

The increased magnetc field is a result of Lorentz effect quanta mechanics, not the result of higher current draw.

Go ahead and do the 10 minute experiment! Get a second "D" cell battery. Connect them in parallel untill the voltage levels off. Hook them up to the coils holding the paper clips, then measure and compare voltages. It won't take long for twice the watt consumption to register a voltage differential between the batteries if your purblind theory's correct.

[MileHigh]

Synchro1:

Actually I am more of a basic fundamentals guy!  lol

The coil increases the field strength without the increased current draw as you infer, or no one would have any use for the coil design. How do you explain it's broad industrial application as an electromagnet.

Can you show some links for the broad industrial application of quasi-bifilar coils for electromagnets?  I tried on Google for a while but I couldn't find any.

"Bifilar windings are used at metal scrap yards as electromagnets since they do more work per kwh".

Do you have a reference for this?

You infer that the bifilar coil would draw twice the current as the single wrap coil of equal Ohms, if both coils were shorted accross input electrodes! Explain how the bifilar coil magicly doubles it's resistance to consume twice the current? You're saying one of those nail core coils has twice the resistance as the other with the same wire length. Think about it!

I didn't say that, perhaps you misunderstood me.  We are always talking about a "pseudo" or "quasi" bifilar coil, right?  It's just one conductor with interlaced windings.  Sort of like an old NTSC or PAL video frame with odd and even fields.  What I said is that the interlacing will not make a significant change as compared to a regularly wound coil assuming the same number of turns for the vast majority of coil applications.  That is the key point.  Do you agree with that?

Go ahead and do the 10 minute experiment! Get a second "D" cell battery. Connect them in parallel untill the voltage levels off. Hook them up to the coils holding the paper clips, then measure and compare voltages. It won't take long for twice the watt consumption to register a voltage differential between the batteries if your purblind theory's correct.

I don't really understand what your point is here or understand what your setup is.  Could you make a schematic and show what voltages you want to compare?  I am actually pretty knowledgeable about electronics, did you see my comments on Conrad's scope shots?

MileHigh

[crazycut06]

Synchro1 and Crazycut06:

You know the old cliche, you have to be very careful about what you read on the Internet.

The "Tesla bifilar electromagnet" stuff is bogus.  Have either of you done the experiment?  There is no reason that it should work.

I explained that the strength of a magnetic field for an electromagnet is determined by the ampere-turns.  In that document you can see that both wire configurations around the nail will give you the same number of ampere-turns.  Therefore both electromagnets will have the same strength.

Here is a big clue about the quality of the web site:

The magnetic field is not produced by voltage, the magnetic field is produced by current.  It's a subtle difference but it is still significant.  If the guy or girl that put up that web page really knew what they are talking about they would not have made that mistake.  Likewise, there is no "production of energy" associated with this, it's completely wrong to state that.  They use the term "efficient" without qualifying it so it is meaningless.  They are just using Tesla's name to make some money.

Because of this you should be very wary of that web site.  To me it looks like a junk web site created in the year 2000.  It just sits there to get some hits so that it can generate a bit of advertising revenue when people click through the ads.

If you don't believe me about the "Tesla bifilar windings" for an electromagnet, by all means do some testing yourself.  You will quickly come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter if the wiring is "bifilar,"  the only thing that counts is the ampere-turns.

If you don't believe me and won't be doing the tests, then please explain why a "Tesla bifilar winding" to make an electromagnet is better than ordinary winding.  After all, when you think about it there is no real difference between the windings.  The "bifilar" business is the same deal as the graphic that Synchro1 posted for the "bifilar" coil.  It's just an interleaved wiring of the coil, it's not truly bifilar.

The real point is that it's important to consider all the information coming at you and look at it in a logical fashion and evaluate it on a case-by-case basis.  There is a lot of junk information out there no matter what you are researching.  So you want to try to separate out the good information from the junk information.

MileHigh

Hi MileHigh,
I cannot despute you on this as i don't have enough experience with this bifi coil, i'll look for a video that i saw where he used a single turn coil versus a mutifilar one.
Thanks for the brief warning...
Regards
Cc

[synchro1]

@MileHigh.

Here's a hyperlink to the experiment. Use two batteries and compare voltages. You don't have any right to insult this labtester. He's been around, he's a PHD and above reproach. Who do you think you are compared to him to humiliate him as a "Junk knowledge" hoaxter? Check out his web site. This experiment has been replicated by plenty of people who think you're really dumb. Get with it.

http://www.tesla-coil-builder.com/bifilar_electromagnet.htm