Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[DreamThinkBuild]

Hi Farmhamd,

Get a large ring magnet, angle it about 24-25 degrees but make the shaft axially symmetric. When it spins it should look like a wobbling plate with forced precession. Place your coils so they align to the same plane of the shaft but through the center of the magnet. As the magnet wobbles it's plane will cut the coil generating power. I've tested this before it works, not OU but interesting.

Prof. Eugene Butikov has a really informative site on precession physics.

http://faculty.ifmo.ru/butikov/index.html

This is the Java applet shown in the picture and setting.
http://faculty.ifmo.ru/butikov/Applets/Precession.html

Playing with the applet will show you a lot clearer the motion of the precession and fixed axis.

Have fun and keep experimenting.

Edit: Forgot to mention to select "List of Examples" and select the first option "Spherical".

[Farmhand]

Hi Farmhand,

Well, a drawing could help indeed. If I understand your proposed setup correctly the pancake coil and the rotor disk would look like a figure of 8 from the side (or putting it otherwise like two normal bicycle wheel) i.e. they both are in the same plane, right?
Now my understanding is that a pancake coil (which has just the thickness of the wire diameter it is wound from) has one of its magnetic poles in the middle center and the other at the outside circumference all around and you swap them by changing the current direction.
This would mean that if the outside circular edge of a pancake is say N all around then a diametrically magnetized ring or tube magnet will either attract or repel the pancake edge, depending on just which pole the diametrical magnet faces the edge. Nevertheless, an interesting setup it would look for sure.

Greetings,
Gyula

Hi Gyula, No not like that like this sketch attached. The spiral coil face to face with the rotor and with shielding at spacings around the spiral coil, the shielding could be windings of a coil or otherwise, but the objective is to shield the spiral coil from the flux so that it gets pulsations of flux and the windings are in the same plane as the rotor and the same size but only a band next to the magnets. The shield could be maybe windings of a series coil fed either DC or even just a load resistor connected to the shield winding would cause the rotor magnets to induce into the shield windings taking the flux from the spiral then between the shields the spiral coil gets flux, I have no idea if the arrangement would cause induction into the spiral coil or not but it would see pulsations of flux if the shields were effective. The shields could be just a material to block magnetic flux if there is such a material.

Cheers

P.S. I was able to produce acceleration under load and short circuit immediately again, and fairly spectacularly as well. And it's fairly quiet. However shorting the generator coil is pointless there is no output and when acceleration under load is observed the load power is small compared to the input.  So far anyway.



..

[gyulasun]

Hi Farmhand,

Thanks for the drawing, it is clear now. Regarding the "shield", unfortunately you would have to use copper windings in series in a pattern as you drew and indeed either DC bias or pulse those windings or terminate with a load resistor because if the shields are not made of ferromagnetic material but passive metal plates then maybe eddy currents may have a "shielding" effect. And if the "shield" is a ferromagnetic material, then your tube magnets would attract to it of course (maybe causing eddy losses too) but in general this passive ferromagnetic shield would not cause much loss or drag and would prevent flux entering the pancake coil part it covers. Unfortunately I do not know any material (metal or non-metal) which blocks flux while it has no magnetic attraction to a permanent magnet.
All in all, only an actual test can give answers whether such setup has any advantage.

I understand your valid questions on Thane's acceleration under load setups. Years ago Thane was active on his thread of this forum on that topic and showed several videos he deleted since then from youtube but I do not recall scope shots you ask. I know he has again appeared occasionally on this forum and has again a youtube channel albeit with less number of videos. I think what you have found by your tests has given you an impression and answer on what really happens so you may wish to step over it. I do not think there is any secret Thane may keep under a 'shield'...

rgds, Gyula

[Farmhand]

Hi Gyula, I apologize for including that rant in my reply to you, I should not have done that, I should keep my opinion on that to myself from now on. I'm sure most folks know my opinion already on that, I'll remove that little rant.  I'm seeing almost the exact same behavior as in those other video's as from almost any setup I try it with.

Anyway I want to keep sharing my idea's and I don't know where to post on this particular forum about it. I know most will see them on other forums if they are interested but I like to share, I'm not sure if for example Conrad looks at the other forums, and I'm not going to post much on EF.

I got side tracked from the generator making today by the rain, and while I was tinkering I decided to try adding some more magnets to the rotor in a certain way which was a good idea, I think I've projected the field of the magnets more towards the coil core but also made the field bigger, I haven't looked with the gen coil sniffer yet to see the effect the filed has on a coil, but it not only improved the performance in speed and torque it also now needs very little timing adjustment through a wide range of speed. Still there is only two poles on the rotor both north out. The voltage to the charging coil is about thirty volts after boosting but the input power is measured at the battery. I can now get 4450 rpm with a 2 mS pulse width and 12.6 volts 2 amps input, with 1.2 mS pulse width I get about 4000 rpm with about 1.6 amps, it will spin the rotor at 2200 rpm with a 2.6 mS pulse width for 200 mA at 12.6 volts so that's 2.52 Watts at 2200 rpm. But under acceleration it can use up to 2.4 amps and accelerates quickly now, much quicker than before.  And it's pretty quiet too, adding the extra magnets the way I did it made it quieter as well.

I'll make a quick sketch of the rotor and how I arranged the magnets. 

Thanks for the reply.

Cheers

[gyulasun]

Hi Farmhand,

No problem on the 'rant' on Thane, he really did not care much about the input power consumption at the time he showed the acceleration under load effect.  And later with his BITT transformers he argued that making the input power factor near zero the Watt-Hour meter would not measure input power anyway so he thought he had achived COP > 1 ...

I assume you stacked some magnets 'in series' on the rotor, this way the flux at the ends facing the coils become more narrow hence stronger for induction or interaction.  I believe that bringing more and more flux from permanent magnets into a system has benefits. I would show you an old thread where a member demonstrated with a simple experiment the advantage of using stronger magnets at a fixed input power. (Of course the focus of the flux by magnet stacking is also a good step if you really did that because eventually it also increases flux.)  This is the post by Ian, includes a 10 minute video http://www.overunity.com/1754/pulse-motor-video/msg35080/#msg35080   
His idea of using more and more coils in series and also in parallel combinations so that the resultant coil inductance and DC resistance remains the same as for any of the single coils sounds good (albeit it would not insure excess output), efficiency would increase for sure.  Back then I toyed with the idea of using a rotor disk of 30-40 cm OD and fixing many small but strong magnets on it while the many stator coils would be arranged like Ian described, using a moderate number of windings of thicker wire but I did not have the mechanical means for the bigger rotor mechanics.  While I do not fully agree with Ian on all his statements as a final outcome, the more flux involved can give more output torque for sure versus the single same coil - single same magnet setup (albeit the COP > 1 is still a question with it).

rgds,  Gyula