Continuous Frictioned Motion Machine

[Low-Q]

You have many good points in your reply regarding my experiment with this fluid. Your experiment will eventually fail too. As a magnet gets saturated with ferro fluid the magnet will loose its "arm length" so it cannot grab the ferro fluid at the end of the capilary tube. Your device will work for a while until the magnetic flux is consentrated around the ferro fluid which is piled up.

Vidar

[christopher kirk reves]

Vidar: “As a magnet gets saturated with ferro fluid the magnet will loose its "arm length" so it cannot grab the ferro fluid at the end of the capilary tube. Your device will work for a while until the magnetic flux is consentrated around the ferro fluid which is piled up.”

Are you suggesting that the strength of the magnetic field will be pulled closer into the magnet when ferrofluid is present (and closer and closer into it in the presence of more and more ferrofluid) than when there is no ferrofluid present?

If so, my guess is that it should actually work the opposite way.

Imagine I have a magnet and a metal ball bearing.  The ball bearing is several inches away from the magnet and I get a measurement of how much pull there is on the ball bearing from the magnet.  If I then take another ball bearing and fix it in place half way between the first ball bearing and the magnet, and take another reading on how much pull there is on the first ball bearing, I would expect there to be more.  I would expect the middle ball bearing to channel the strength of the magnetic field out farther.

And it’s my guess that ferrofluids (small little pieces of metal suspended in a fluid) would work the same way.  I would think that they’d extend the strength of magnetic field out farther.

Thank you for the issue.  I need to investigate and not just speculate.  I’ll look around the web and see if I can find anything.

(And please let me know if I misunderstood what you were suggesting in the quote above.)

[Low-Q]

Are you suggesting that the strength of the magnetic field will be pulled closer into the magnet when ferrofluid is present (and closer and closer into it in the presence of more and more ferrofluid) than when there is no ferrofluid present? The ferrofluid will guide the flux loop closer to the magnet, and shield the magnet from attracting magnetic objects. The more fluid, the better is the magnetic shielding.

If so, my guess is that it should actually work the opposite way.

Imagine I have a magnet and a metal ball bearing.  The ball bearing is several inches away from the magnet and I get a measurement of how much pull there is on the ball bearing from the magnet.  If I then take another ball bearing and fix it in place half way between the first ball bearing and the magnet, and take another reading on how much pull there is on the first ball bearing, I would expect there to be more.  I would expect the middle ball bearing to channel the strength of the magnetic field out farther.
No. The magnetic flux which was spread out to the outer ball bearing will also get closer to the middle ball bearing, so less magnetic lines will cross the outer ball bearing, and the pull of the outer ball bearing gets weaker.

And it’s my guess that ferrofluids (small little pieces of metal suspended in a fluid) would work the same way.  I would think that they’d extend the strength of magnetic field out farther. No, they wont. The flux will use the better magnetic conductivity in the fluid to guide the magnetic flux directly to the oposite pole, and therfor less magnetic flux is left in thin air.

Thank you for the issue.  I need to investigate and not just speculate.  I’ll look around the web and see if I can find anything.

(And please let me know if I misunderstood what you were suggesting in the quote above.)

[christopher kirk reves]

Vidar:  “No. The magnetic flux which was spread out to the outer ball bearing will also get closer to the middle ball bearing, so less magnetic lines will cross the outer ball bearing, and the pull of the outer ball bearing gets weaker.”

I did some experiments yesterday.

I placed a metal ball bearing on a ramp, and positioned a magnet just beyond where the strength of the magnetic pull would pull the ball bearing up the ramp (up against the force of gravity).

Then I put another ball bearing between the magnet and the first ball bearing.

Results: The first ball bearing moved up the ramp.

(I found that I needed to put the second ball bearing not at the midpoint between the magnet and the first ball bearing, but about three quarters of the way between them on the side of the first ball bearing.)

So, the middle ball bearing (which has no magnetic field of its own, but only that given to it from the magnet) did channel the strength of the magnetic field out farther (and thus pulled the otherwise motionless first ball bearing up the ramp).

Vidar:  “The ferrofluid will guide the flux loop closer to the magnet, and shield the magnet from attracting magnetic objects. The more fluid, the better is the magnetic shielding.”

I then did a second experiment.

I put the metal ball bearing on the ramp, and moved the magnet to different positions to find the point where it was just still close enough to pull the ball bearing up the ramp, and then to find the point where it was just far enough to not pull the ball bearing up the ramp.  (I marked these two positions.)

I then placed a piece of plastic over the side of the magnet closest to the ball bearing (in order to keep the ferrofluid on this side of the magnet (as in the pmm design I’m proposing) and not to let it just spread out all over the magnetic everywhere), and then added ferrofluid.

I then placed this (magnet with ferrofluid) at the point where the magnet alone (no ferrofluid) was just able to pull the ball bearing up the ramp, and then I placed this (magnet with ferrofluid) at the point where the magnet alone (no ferrofluid) was just beyond being able to pull the ball bearing up the ramp.

Results:  The ball bearing acted exactly the same.  There were no detectable differences. 

The ball bearing rolled up the ramp with the magnet and ferrofluid placed in the same place as it did when it was just the magnet alone.  And the ball bearing did not roll up the ramp when the magnet and ferrofluid were placed in the same place as it did not when it was just the magnet alone.

Vidar:  “No, they wont. The flux will use the better magnetic conductivity in the fluid to guide the magnetic flux directly to the oposite pole, and therfor less magnetic flux is left in thin air.”

Yes.  In the pmm design I'm proposing, the lines of flux will be channeled through the area of the capillaries where there is ferrofluid as opposed to just moving through thin air.  And so, at the end of the capillaries, where there is a gap, the fluid spikes out beyond the capillaries, in line with these lines of flux, and then breaks off from these capillaries and drips, also in line with these lines of flux.


Thank you for continuing to consider this idea, and continuing to poke at it.  I hope I addressed your concerns.  If not, please let me know, and I’ll readdress them.

[christopher kirk reves]

(Oops.  When I modified a couple of words in my last post, I also reattached my drawing not realizing this would add it for a second time.  I don’t know how to use this software to remove the second one.  Apologizes for the redundancy.)