Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells

[triffid]

Chemistry page about growing crystals.Theres a section on growing sheets of crystals.With epsom salts and /or alum.   http://chemistry.about.com/od/crystalrecipes/ht/quickcrystals.htm  triffid




other links of interest are included.

[jbignes5]

Ok back to the chase for this device.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6AAVZIzx6U&feature=related


This is a great example of what we are doing. By using the natural separation of voltage in the cell we are creating a flow inwards to the center electrode. Well in the circular examples. The plates are much the same. I propose that if we merely separate the different metals via a dielectric that we will have a self charging capacitor. How much it can push is the question. Since it is a capacitor we will have to have a way to use pulsating sources. These caps will need time to refill but it shouldn't be in the second rate of the plates are perfectly separated. Plastic mesh and oil bath will do fine to maintain the separation and additional dielectric.


My question is has anyone ever made a capacitor with the type of materials we are using? Two dissimilar metals or electrodes.?

Hmmm... "Cells using aqueous (containing water) electrolytes are limited in voltage to less than 2 Volts because the oxygen and hydrogen in water dissociate in the presence of voltages above this voltage. Lithium batteries (see below) which use non-aqueous electrolytes do not have this problem and are available in voltages between 2.7 and 3.7 Volts. However the use of non-aqueous electrolytes results in those cells having a relatively high internal impedance."

http://www.mpoweruk.com/chemistries.htm

[PhiChaser]

Thanks for the links guys!
@ triffid: Your link made me think that maybe I should melt down the salts in hot water and add them to the Durham's as a hot saline solution? Jeeze, I can't hardly imagine how FAST that would set up...
@ BigJ: Even your hyperlinks make me want to drink coffee... Great post and it IS a really good video so far... I will have to watch the rest of it when I have more quiet time...

Time to go hook up some cells, I need to get supplies so I'm just gonna try some of my new (okay, vintage) ammeters and see what sorts of numbers I can get messing around... Maybe I will even take a picture heh heh...

Have a great weekend everyone, happy experimenting!
PC

[jbignes5]

 Yeah I have a knack for finding relative research.


The thing is I think we need to accept there is water in the cells and work on the premise that we are gonna conserve the water.


I'm gonna try the two metals with a very very thin piece of mica or other insulator and see what kind of things happen. I am guessing that we could make cells very small and series parallel them as needed. but I will have to do some studies first.


I'm thinking also that is oxygen is the problem then a de-oxidizer might work if it can be used as an electrolyte. I don't know how that will play out but we will see...

I also suggest you reading this on water(hydrogen):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen

If you read all that is there you can get a sense of what we are doing. In most cases we are forming an oxide layer that acts like a highly repairable barrier but all the while still maintaining the electrical connection via the oxygen in that crystallized layer. In our case we want a solid electrolyte that can both respond to electrical stimulation and carry a significant current in the process. I am thinking that crystals of salts are very low temp phase changing electrolyte. It is an electrolyte because of the hydrogen that is encapsulated inside of the drying structure. What causes the drying? Oxygen from the water. Once the oxygen has been used in this method it becomes unbound from the hydrogen and free to hop to another empty place as a charge carrier. There is no real electrolysis of the water because it already has been unbonded from the h2 in the crystals chambers. It is only when we try to force the units to act like a traditional battery by series connection that we see electrolysis in the cells which will slowly deplete the process of stored components of water in the cell. Hence an unsealed cell is a doomed cell.

I am thinking that plating the electrodes will not effect the voltage of the mass of predominating metal or conductive carbon. In fact it might enhance the process because there is little for the oxygen to react with anymore. I'll check more on this.

As a side note geometry of the electrodes is also a big factor for power or current. This is because some geometries are focus oriented (concentrating) and others are linear focal points(more spread out).

I know this is a lot of information but it needs to be brought up to our attention:

http://electrochem.cwru.edu/encycl/art-d03-curr-distr.htm

http://electrochem.cwru.edu/encycl/art-m01-magnetic.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodizing

This method seems to be what we want here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_electrolytic_oxidation

[Peanutbutter29]

Though I've been resided in non-research for a few years, this does spark my interest some.  I've watched a few videos and read a bit on this thread.   When I was last researching, Hutchinson was supposedly selling these to China;  heh. 

For a first setup; would it be possible for someone to suggest an "accepted" design / materials?
I see there is quite a bit of discussion still on the materials for the crystal, so I know it's not decided;  but what would you suggest as a starter?

With Cathode and Anode;  I don't currently have magnesium, but I do have some carbon rods.  Would this work?  I assume it would show a slight bit less potential than the Mg, due to activity series placement.

If I'm understanding, these are all dying out after a certain period of time (related to moisture).  Is there an average or estimated time one could generalize from these?

Also, has anyone recorded approximations for total power output for the duration of its' functioning?

Lastly, has anyone looked into (or related these to) Electrets?  E.g.- here "pre-loading" the crystal with static or magnetic while solidifying.

Thanks, PB