Bessler's Other Wheel (?)

[johnny874]

   @All,
From early on, I considered the possibility of Bessler having built more than one wheel.
One reason for this is no one has yet found a way all his clues can describe a singular wheel.
This has lead me to consider how his clues could be used in various combinations.
With this "wheel", some clues do fit. the important part though is if a working concept can be built. To that end, it does take developing an idea and it's build process. If someone has build experience with similar mechanics, it would be easy for them to jump ahead on something like this.
Also, as Veljko Milkovic has built an efficient water pump using pendulums, this is something that could make them self powering. Then people from Serbia to Africa to India could benefit from something like this.
Myself, I happen to like Bessler's engineering and his work. To this end, I will start explaining how a double pendulum could work and the math behind it.
The picture illustrates how one side of a double pendulum could work. In time, I will explain some ways the mechanics can work.
Most people probably believe that the lifting of a weight cancels out the force of the swing weight causing it to be lifted. I do not think this is so. I believe as the weight is being lifted, that it increases the efficiency of the pendulum. This is because there is less counter torque resisting the downward swing of the prime mover. Also, as the weight being lifted rises, it requires less force to move it towards center, much less
What is of concern is that the pendulum being lifted does not rise above the level of the axle. If so, even with springs, it would be difficult to move the weight outward again.
Also, in the coming days, I will show how some of Bessler's clues do fit this which includes a spinning top that he drew as a picture clue. It describes quite well the mechanics of the weights on the double pendulum. And as such, if 2 double pendulums are used, then when the weights are released outwards, they could make knocking sounds, 8 per rotation of the wheel as described. I am not sure if the knocking sounds location were noted.

                                                                             Jim
edited to correct spelling, etc.

[johnny874]

    @All,
Since I will be having surgery Friday morning, might as well start now.
The attached diagram shows shafts A and AC. Shaft A is the main fulcrum.
And as it rotates, it can rotate shaft AC in the opposite direction.  This will allow the downward swing on the left to pull in the weight on the right and vice versa. It is basically the heart of the mechanics for a double pendulum. Shafts A and AC could have meshing gears as found in any clock or a strap/tether.
And by using shafts AC, different cogs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilsB_KtTSAU might be tried. With a 1/4 rotation added, .785 in addition to .57 per 1 value of radius would calculate the retraction of a weight towards center. I think it totals 1.355 for every cm or inch of radius of the cog. What the cog allows for besides retracting a weight is it's release without extra work needing to be done. It allows the line to slip of the hoisting mechanism which is what the cog really is.
The weights of course would be round and have a place where a line could be attached to bothe sides for equal pull upon being retracted. If such could work, then I believe all that is necessary has been posted.
The diagram with shaft AB is another possiblity. By having a seperate shaft rotate both shafts attached to the weights, it might allow for a design that's easier to work with.
It is a simple idea. And is open for any person to try. If they are successful, there are those who would be helped.

                                                                      Jim

[johnny874]

   @All,
This diagram shows why I believe using weights only in a rotating wheel is not a very good idea.
If you consider the torque generated by over balanced weights, it will need to be sufficient to move all other weights. And to lift the weights above the axle and move other weights, it seems it is to much work for one or 2 weights to do.
With a double pendulum, it is one weight moving an opposing weight. This requires much less work to be performed than a rotating wheel.

                                                                           Jim

[johnny874]

   @All,
I might be able to make non working models to demonstrate how both types of pendulums can work.
This one and the one I described with the top moveable weight and the fixed weight. It is this one that if it could work, might better be suited for what Vejlko has been working on.

                                                                                                            Jim

[iacob alex]

 
       Hi Johnny874!

  I agree with you ("...using weights only in a rotating wheel is not a very good idea...").

  I can add even more:it's an obstructive idea.

  Why?

  Because the most important factor is impetus  m*v=m*g*t ,or the "free falling TIME".

  As a matter of fact,for a repetitive device (weight-counterweight),we have  an acceleration a<<g...so,the falling height must be greater .

  Regarding kinetic energy,we must consider  the nonlinear development of falling mass,that is  1/2m*v*v...so time becomes a very important factor.

  Take a look at "Wheel vs. lever" topic.

     All the best! / Alex