Testing the TK Tar Baby

[PhiChaser]

By ideal circuit design I guess I meant for the highest COP number.
I guess in the case of the TB, the highest negative (lowest?) mean oscillation cycle (value?)?
A short sharp shock and get it to keep ringing with only one 'on' cycle would be the best??
When you swapped out the cap in that 'variations' video the cap 'set' the amperage for the circuit right? (I know it killed the osc.) That makes sense since caps are used for timing purposes, and amperage is how fast the power moves through the circuit. So if the cap were properly matched to the load (whatever you decide to power, looks like hot oil heaters ) could the 'ringing' (oscillations) be sustained for longer (indefinitely?)? 
I try to stay away from the NERD 'claims', they jump to conclusions too easily...

PC

[TinselKoala]

By ideal circuit design I guess I meant for the highest COP number.
I guess in the case of the TB, the highest negative (lowest?) mean oscillation cycle (value?)?
A short sharp shock and get it to keep ringing with only one 'on' cycle would be the best??
When you swapped out the cap in that 'variations' video the cap 'set' the amperage for the circuit right? (I know it killed the osc.) That makes sense since caps are used for timing purposes, and amperage is how fast the power moves through the circuit. So if the cap were properly matched to the load (whatever you decide to power, looks like hot oil heaters ) could the 'ringing' (oscillations) be sustained for longer (indefinitely?)? 
I try to stay away from the NERD 'claims', they jump to conclusions too easily...

PC

Well, to get the highest negative mean power product we want 100 percent oscillations, as anything happening during the non-oscillation portion can only be a positive contribution. However.... I don't think this will produce high heat in the load. I think that the circuit can operate for a long time in this mode because the battery drain will be low. 

This will of course have to be one of the test modes that I run. But I have to emphasize again that I do not believe that the NERDS have actually shown high heat in the load using this mode. However, Ainslie has claimed that they can.... even though they have never even shown the ability to operate with constant oscillations at all.

I can envision the following scenario: I test Tar Baby using straight oscillations as shown in their long duty cycle trials, but under my controlled conditions (stated above) I fail to find high anomalous heat in the load. The NERD spokesperson will then claim that I have failed to replicate..... even though what I have "failed" to replicate is something that they have themselves never shown. This is also the same thing that happened during my earlier work on the COP>17 claim three or four years ago.

It's not necessary to provide any kind of sharp shock to make the oscillations start, just a constant DC source of bias current supplied to the "red" board connection at negative 4 volts or more. This can come from just about any source, including the main battery itself with a little clever charge pumping.

[PhiChaser]

Well, to get the highest negative mean power product we want 100 percent oscillations, as anything happening during the non-oscillation portion can only be a positive contribution. However.... I don't think this will produce high heat in the load. I think that the circuit can operate for a long time in this mode because the battery drain will be low. 

This will of course have to be one of the test modes that I run. But I have to emphasize again that I do not believe that the NERDS have actually shown high heat in the load using this mode. However, Ainslie has claimed that they can.... even though they have never even shown the ability to operate with constant oscillations at all.

I can envision the following scenario: I test Tar Baby using straight oscillations as shown in their long duty cycle trials, but under my controlled conditions (stated above) I fail to find high anomalous heat in the load. The NERD spokesperson will then claim that I have failed to replicate..... even though what I have "failed" to replicate is something that they have themselves never shown. This is also the same thing that happened during my earlier work on the COP>17 claim three or four years ago.

It's not necessary to provide any kind of sharp shock to make the oscillations start, just a constant DC source of bias current supplied to the "red" board connection at negative 4 volts or more. This can come from just about any source, including the main battery itself with a little clever charge pumping.

Thanks for clearing that up, I see that the duty cycles are important to keep in there (since you're after extra heat, not low power consumption). Gotcha.
So if you are making LV superefficient hot oil heaters, could you use a thermocouple to provide the juice for your charge pump (assuming you could get -4v from a thermocouple somehow)?
PC
EDIT: NVM about the -4v, I guess you just need to power the charge pump, so can a thermocouple do that?

[TinselKoala]

No, I don't think so, because the bias source has to be able to provide a not insignificant current to the system to maintain the oscillations, and the amplitude of the oscillations seems to depend on this current (or, correspondingly, the negative voltage supplied.) In the Altoid demonstrator this bias current seems to be 20-40 mA depending on load and Zener, and in the Tar Baby with 4 mosfets oscillating it can be 200 mA or more, but I usually have been running at around 160 mA. You aren't going to get those kinds of currents from ordinary thermocouples! . It might be interesting to try but I don't think there would be enough voltage to actually make the oscillations.

[PhiChaser]

No, I don't think so, because the bias source has to be able to provide a not insignificant current to the system to maintain the oscillations, and the amplitude of the oscillations seems to depend on this current (or, correspondingly, the negative voltage supplied.) In the Altoid demonstrator this bias current seems to be 20-40 mA depending on load and Zener, and in the Tar Baby with 4 mosfets oscillating it can be 200 mA or more, but I usually have been running at around 160 mA. You aren't going to get those kinds of currents from ordinary thermocouples! . It might be interesting to try but I don't think there would be enough voltage to actually make the oscillations.

Heh heh, yeah, they have tiny tiny current, that is for sure. You would need multiples (and multiples) if you went in that direction. I really dig the Altoid setup BTW, very cool design. The 9v supply (and less 'fets) makes it more 'approachable' for a 'project' (4 to 6 12v batteries not so much...).
Can you get the oscillations going using two (or even one?) AA batteries?
PC