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[sarkeizen]

i dont see how the commonest,most widespread rules governing concentration cells can possibly be informal

If it's a well established rule in textbooks.  Then you need a textbook cite to make your argument that "all we need is textbooks".  Until then you fail.  Keep on failing there troll-boy.

and while youre at it please explain your accusation of informality

I did, several times.  A formal argument is a series of statements which reach a conclusion.  Each statement following the first one is FORCED by the prior.  In other words it is absolutely impossible to reach any other conclusion.  No series of steps, no formal argument. QED.  Most of the statements you make are so incredibly broad they can not be said to force anything.  Thus again, no formal argument.

Let me know when you fix these things.

[profitis]

series of steps,except there is only 1 step man,dont make me angry now @sarkeizen.if i was a teacher in a college and i asked the students to build an oxygen-electrode concentration cell at ambient pressure,temperature,what cell are they going to build except a karpen cell @sarkeizen.they are forced to have only one choice but to build an karpen-type thingy in direct accordance with textbook rules @sarkeizen.one step.one thermodynamics.one conclusion.i cant give you more than one step to such a common theme @sarkeizen.a karpen cell obeys the rules of thermodynamics,in two ways.

[sarkeizen]

series of steps,except there is only 1 step man

Then the only thing that will demonstrate "The textbooks say that you can build something which will power an ipod-like device forever" is a textbook cite which says words to the effect. Otherwise you need a textbook cite AND a series of steps leading to your conclusion.   Anything else is begging the question. QED -> You fail to make your point.

,dont make me angry now

Don't make me laugh.

i cant give you more than one step to such a common theme

Any argument that can not be broken down into steps is, by definition an assumption.  You can assume that you can build things that will power something forever in exactly the same way you can believe in an invisible, insubstantial dragon in your garage. 

See, as soon as you start talking logic.  You lose.

[profitis]

bravo. except i won this race looong ago @sarkeizen.because this discussion is after the fact.ie.this discussion is now to suss out whats going down in the buildable,testable 3-d everlasting thing,after the fact.so lets cater to your request for multiple inescapable steps then just for the sake of post-argument.step 1: im a teacher in college and i demand construction of a e.g. hydrogen electrode concentration cell from you,the student.i also demand construction of a copper-electrode concentration cell from you,the student.do you agree that step 1 thus so far is crystal clear and,in your words,forced inescapable logic @sarkeizen.do you agree yes or no.if no please state a reason.

[sarkeizen]

except i won this race looong ago

Nope.  Sorry, that's quite impossible.  The argument at hand is whether or not the hypothesis "A device can be built that will power an ipod like device forever" can be supported purely by textbooks.  If that was the case, the formal argument and cites would be in the thread.  There is no other way to make this point.  Now you can pretend you've made the point.  The same as you might pretend there's a invisible, intangible dragon in your garage.

step 1: im a teacher in college and i demand construction of a e.g. hydrogen electrode concentration cell from you,the student

Step 1a: I tell you to go away troll-boy.

I'm not a student, you are not a teacher.  I have no idea how to build anything of the sort, nor do I know what you mean by your terms.  Not to mention that this step doesn't - as discussed - appear to stem from a cite from a textbook so it doesn't make your argument (and if it does then it's not "crystal clear" so it fails there too)

Some advice, start with a cite from a textbook.  That's how you can make the argument "All you need is textbooks"

I wonder if people tell you, you're good at arguing.  If so, you should gently let those people know they are pretty stupid.