quentron.com

[neptune]

@Broli. Not sur I understood you last post. Are you saying that applying for the prize would not be to his advantage, or that you have doubts about this technology?

[broli]

@Broli. Not sur I understood you last post. Are you saying that applying for the prize would not be to his advantage, or that you have doubts about this technology?

It's the former. If you read the whole thread you'll know why. The prize does not fit his strategy.

[Philip Hardcastle]

Hi All,


Quick post. Response to some issues, not necessarily in order.


Quenco current capability is a mind blowing 10,000A/cm2 but that should not be considered alone, at 10,000A/cm2 the voltage is only a few mv, at 1,000A/cms it is 100mv, at 100A/cm2 we can get a little more voltage, and so on. The open circuit voltage is limited by reverse leakage and so is about 250mv per layer.

For 5v we need to lay down many layers but as each layer is 1.2nm it still looks like an impossibly thin film. If we want to have an output of 5v at 2Amps we need only 25 layers, if we want 5v at 1000 amps we need 50 layers. At 50 layers or 25 layers the heat flux into the quenco is little different (the extra 25 layers amounts to only an extra 30nm and so with a thermal conductivity of approx 1w/cmk even 1 degree gradient becomes MW/cm2).

So as I said before getting the heat in is the problem. A 1mm x 1mm single Quenco layer at 100mV has a current output of 10A, if loaded (shorted) it would output its energy to the limit of the shorts inductance and resistance limitation and then rapidly frost. If there were 50 layers its output would be higher and so instantaneous output greater, but the temperature depression would happen faster. If we take the thermal mass of 1mm x 1mm x say 50um (end contacts being most of that) then we might calculate the the energy it could dissipate to a load as being  50,000,000 um3 which is 50/1000 mm3 or 50/1,000,000cm3, so even if it had a specific heat capacity of 1J/cm3/k we would have 15mJ, this is not likely to weld or damage anything.

Second is that if we had a 1000 layer 24V quenco of 10cm x 10cm having an output capability of MW we could short an edge quite safely as the end conatct layers are only um thick so the transverse current to a short is quite small, it is only when we couple the 10cm x 10cm to a bus bar of 10cm x 10 cm that we can fully obtain the MW power capability. Let me say it in a more stark way, if you had a 100MW piece of quenco you could hammer a nail through it without much drop of output or danger of fire. Like I have said before quenco converts heat to power at quantum scale and so just as with Esaki diodes the tunneling current is very very high, but quenco is limited by the heat flux into it, for MW output at say 1000V we could use just 1cm x 1cm of 10,000 layer (12um thick) but I defy anyone to figure out how to get that much heat to the quenco, at best using graphene we could have (by my modeling) 10kW per cm2 energy flow from ambient to quenco (depressed by -100C from ambient). Super critical CO2 might be a simple means of transferring energy in but ultimately it is easier to reduce quenco manufacture price and just use more cm2 tiles.

My guess is that we get down to $1 a cm2 tile with 200V @ 10A output (to suit electric cars) and use 50 tiles per car. Obviously if the tiles were to cost $1,000 then there would be reason to use less tiles but better heat input infrastructure.

I must say that I am totally out of my depth on the issue of getting heat in and I have not filed any patents on graphene or sc CO2 heat exchangers, many people can take ownership of these issues. I will stick with the issue of getting quenco made as cheap as possible.


So I have covered a few technical things, as to me claiming the OU prize I already have pledged a fair chunk of the prize so I would be claiming against myself, but more importantly quenco is not OU, nor would I want to take away the prize anyway, it remains as a beacon (hopefully one that grows in cash) to encourage a search for new science / invention. I am sure the prize money will come from many sources once quenco becomes mainstream and that money will be helpful to buy more roll to roll equipment.

Lastly, and this is painful, I am now 100% sure I cannot deliver the vid experiment for 1cm x 1cm tiles by 11 June, we just have had too many delays getting films deposited, I will post here as soon as I am sure of the guaranteed dates, I will post some info on quentron.com in early June as an update.


If I had to make a bet about the date I would say end of June is possible, July is certain. I am not wriggling or being evasive, and it will be "soon", but since I do not have my own nanofab (yet) I am not totally in control of production. We have however great hopes that it will be this coming week.


Bye for now.


BTW, if I make a silly mistake in my quick calcs (and I often do), or do not express myself clearly, please email me at pjhardcastle@gmail.com, but please do not expect a quick reply, and please do not expect me to give out any more technical info - that must remain restricted until launch.

[neptune]

Hi Philip, and many thanks for the technical information, although some of the calculations are a bit over my head. One thing that seems obvious, is that the big problem initially is going to be getting enough heat into the thing. I get the impression that output is going to be dependent on maintaining a temperature gradient. To power an electric car, high tech methods and materials look to be pretty much essential. Hopefully for the multitude of lower power applications the market demands, a lower tech cheaper option will be more appropriate, using materials such as copper and aluminium, possibly with a forced air supply to prevent freezing.
       Whilst it is a shame that you will not be able to meet the June 11th deadline, I hope you will do your best to keep us informed of developments. Do not underestimate the publicity that you will get by sending a sample to Hartiberlin, he is well respected in these fields.
       Finally do not underestimate the demand for electric bike batteries. This is a huge market, just waiting for a development like yours. And at 2 to 300 Watts, much less demanding than car batteries.

[e2matrix]

Just a small bump in the road.  I'm sure those following this thread will still be here as I will.  I had not thought about the e-bike connection but that would truly be a great one.  As it is probably the only thing that has kept me from getting an e-bike is the rather low range they have.   With only a slightly larger scooter style you could probably house a fair sized unit.  That brings to mind the idea of using the quentron in parallel with some standard lead acid or Li-Ion or Li-Poly batteries to possibly give more current short term as needed while having the quentron be able to constantly recharge the standard battery if it was not pulling full power at the time.  As I don't have a good grasp yet on this new technology I don't know if that would even make sense to do but just wanted to mention it as it crossed my mind in regards to the e-bike.