Simple to build isolation transformer that consumes less power than it gives out

[gyulasun]

That last part is interesting, thanks. It makes sense too, like simply using a thicker wire for a single winding on the core.
What about series connection for coils on the same core.... add inductances like normal?

Hi TinselKoala,

In the case you ask, inductances do not add as normal due to the mutual inductance(s) involved on the common core.
See this link for explanations, starting from the middle of the page, under Example 1:
http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/inductor/series-inductors.html

rgds,  Gyula

[JouleSeeker]

 Yes, the behavior is different when the coils are wound on the same core, as opposed to separate cores... Thanks for comments.

  I checked with TWO separate toroids using my home LCR meter:   with one toroid, L = 1.8 H; combining this with the OTHER separate toroid, I measure:

0.82 H (with the two in parallel)
3.23 H ( with the two in series).

Close to what I would expect for separate cores.

[Jack Noskills]

TinselKoala, thanks for the info, very good. Ideal waveform in my opinion is sine, do you happen to know oscillator that puts out sine wave, just in case square-to-sine conversion does not go like in the movies ?

T-1000, trafo needs power pressure before it can deliver power. Signal generators put out power in milliwatt range, so most likely output is not so good. But high permeability core and high frequency drive signal might change things, atleast math says so. It might be worthwhile to test this anyway to gain more understanding.

Steve, very nice that you have such a meter available. Was not aware that such meters exist. So basically you could just measure the impedance of one coil with different frequency and when it reaches for example value above 100 kohm then that kind of frequency is needed to drive the coils to get the effect.

wattsup, I think there is only one frequency at work here. I tried multicore setup and I know it created lots of harmonics based on the sound of those nanoperm cores. Operation is such that the driver frequency needs to be cancelled by the second coil. If there would be multiple frequencies involved then this cancellation would not occur perfectly. The load causes 'delay' which causes change of impedance in normal trafos. Now that those two coils are connected together this delay is not seen by the first coil, only second coil sees it which then causes normal trafo operation in such a way that source does not see load. Maybe reason is that impedance can be diffent for two currents depending on their direction. Impedance is low towards output side but it is high towards input side, then input side is unable to push current through. Anyway, any experiments are good even if result is negative. But in my opinion any replicator should first see the original version working and only then try different setups. Otherwise tweak if unsuccessfull might cause frustration and whole project gets dropped. In FE search frustration is your worst enemy.

Yesterday I measured the idle power of the fat nano. I crossed the coils so I got current through both coils and 40 watt bulb lit up brightly. Then I touched the coil to see how hot it gets. The damn fatty shocked me ! I got shocks from the dielectric field, quite unpleasant actually. Then I put power just through 400 meter coil and same effect. The harder I pressed the bigger the shock, weird stuff. The wires I used have Mylar C insulation so I was not getting shocks from electric current in the wire. Maybe this dielectric field could be utilised at some stage, some coil perpendicular on top of toroidal wind and feedback to source or something like that. Anyway beware the dielectric field.

Idle current with 560 meters of wire (Litz setup) was around 8 watts, with 400 meters it was that 134 watts, with 800 meters it was below one watt. If someone wants to try grid frequency then these figures should give some insight on the amount of wire you would need. Core permeability was that 80000.

[aaron5120]

Sorry Jack, I went back to previous posts from you a day ago, and could not find where you have stated the frequency you are working with the nanoperm core.
I understand that you originally worked with grid frequency that was 50/60 Hz.
Could you please clarify which are the frequencies you ultimately are using?
Also the gauge of the Litz wire and its total DC resistance in the primary and secondary windings are parameters really important here in order replications can be made successfully.
Thanks for your understanding.
aaron5120

[Jack Noskills]

I used 220V/50 Hz, but it is easier to replicate at higher frequency. Note how in Steven's measurement resistance to AC was increased, at 0 Hz it was 40 ohms but at 100 Hz it was already 1.6 kohms with his commercial trafo. This is the effect that must be created in the core, high impedance state and higher is better. Core material does not matter, except for higher frequencies iron is out. Wire gauge does not matter, DC resistance does not matter. Only high impedance condition is needed and input should be sine wave with power behind it. This rules out normal signal generators, you might be able to see the effect though and determine the frequency your setup can use.

You don't need Litz wire, I unwound it first to get single wire because that was the only wire I had. This I then used to build the 800 meter nano, 80 10 meter strips. I was quite sane when I started it, but when I reached the end I am not so sure... My first test cores were done with just one 63 strand coil made from Litz wire so that prototyping was easy. This showed that it does not matter if coils were interleaved or separated, but this is true only at 50 Hz. At higher frequency things might change. Easiest way to make this is to use two strand wire, one round on top of core, then connect them and drive it at high enough frequency. Frequency does not need to be any resonant frequency as this setup is always in resonance wth source. This fact makes this important. Ridiculously easy way is to use commercial trafo and just raise up the frequency. It could make a difference if those coils are of different length, which seemed to be true in the trafo that Steven tested. At high frequencies I think it is necessary to have same length of wire in both coils.

Parameters you asked:
iron trafo: very thin wire, 0.0x mm thick, resistance was 165 ohms. Coil was small, atmost 10 mm wide. If you break trafo made by chinese company named Jutai then you will get the same coil I used. Trafo was rated to 20 watts and it was used to light up 80 small bulbs, not leds.
nanoperm: the fat one had 2 times 400 meters of 0.31 mm wire, close to AWG28, two separate sides, permeability 80000. 400 meters had about 68 ohms resistance, this particular coil was not measured because I lost my meter during winter.

If someone does tests then please put your findings here, even if the test is a failure. It will show to others what does not work and maybe we all learn something from it. My word is valid only for 50 Hz, rest is my speculation based on what I have read and use of common sense. Which is not very much in this field, I write software for living, so don't believe everything I say. Take it with grain of salt and if you end up testing a high frequency system be very careful and start from low pressure/power from source.