Simple to build isolation transformer that consumes less power than it gives out

[Jack Noskills]

Good stuff!

Can you describe what kind of trafos you used for testing ? What was the impedance of your coils and power levels you used ?

This setup splits the voltage, so a 1:2 ratio could be used to get back to original voltage level. My test trafos started to use power then, but maybe this was just because of my setup. It is worth a try anyway. When coils are uneven, shorter coil gives more amps than volts and longer coil gives less amps and more volts.

[forest]

Could someone explain me what is idle current on primary side of transformer dependent on ? Resistance of wire is one known factor of course, what about core size or number of turns ?  I found it interesting that the smaller transformer the smaller idle current but it may be related to resistance of windings when number of turns required is high because of small iron core. Hence the bigger transformer the bigger core and less turns but also bigger idle current :-( Somehow producers of commercial transformers choose the minimum of turns on primary side which makes our testing very hard due to high idle current 

[forest]

"Now look at the picture, the second trafo is connected so that as current in one coil goes from left to right, it creates current in the second coil from right to left. Then I feed both currents to load from the same side. When load is connected current on primary side rises for a moment and then it returns back to same level as before."


Jack , would you be so kind to draw schematic with coloured arrows  explaining how you envisioned currents in this second transformer ? Why you think that current flowing from the upper coil do not pass into load directly but rather flow into the lower coil of this second transformer  (is this what you state ? I can only imagine this case when the currents both from the secondary of first trafo (original current) and the current generated inside lower coil of second transformer can go to the load from the same side (left side). Really your help is highly important here. As I finally made a few trafos I will try to help yet I'm not skilled  .I'll try to perform tests  if circuit could work with my not so pure sine wave inverter Powerware 5115. Later maybe using 20W sound amplifier if possible. I really want to understand this effect which is the real key to OU.

[Jack Noskills]

What happens is my speculation, it might not be correct so it does not make sense to draw diagram about it. There is also an option that watt meter gives me wrong results because load is inductive. Current limiter bulb might give wrong result also, current is going through it but voltage is not high enough to affect light brightness, so this should be measured using proper meter.

If you can create the two bulb scenario where limiter bulb has no light but output bulb has light, then measure current that come in and then voltage across L and N, that is between L and both sides of the limiter bulb. If this voltage is close to 0 volts, then power is not being used as much though there is current going, is this correct ? If possible, try to measure using both setups.
Earlier measurement have shown that voltage drop over limiter bulb is only few volts, what does it mean ? Obviously limiter bulb is not using power, but does it mean that the entire circuit is not using any power from source ?

As you see, there are still questions that should be answered but I don't have proper instruments. I hope you, or someone else can clarify in detail what is going on in this little circuit when using coils that have high enough impedance. Tank circuit works too so it is not necessary to wind lots of wire for the coils.

[forest]

What happens is my speculation, it might not be correct so it does not make sense to draw diagram about it. There is also an option that watt meter gives me wrong results because load is inductive. Current limiter bulb might give wrong result also, current is going through it but voltage is not high enough to affect light brightness, so this should be measured using proper meter.

If you can create the two bulb scenario where limiter bulb has no light but output bulb has light, then measure current that come in and then voltage across L and N, that is between L and both sides of the limiter bulb. If this voltage is close to 0 volts, then power is not being used as much though there is current going, is this correct ? If possible, try to measure using both setups.
Earlier measurement have shown that voltage drop over limiter bulb is only few volts, what does it mean ? Obviously limiter bulb is not using power, but does it mean that the entire circuit is not using any power from source ?

As you see, there are still questions that should be answered but I don't have proper instruments. I hope you, or someone else can clarify in detail what is going on in this little circuit when using coils that have high enough impedance. Tank circuit works too so it is not necessary to wind lots of wire for the coils.

I have made setup from four 10W 230V to 15V transformers.
I recreated two bulbs scenario, but there is no effect as you described. I proved two things. On idle I have 15,5mA running through primary of first trafo with the help of two capacitors in parallel to primary. When I connected wrongly the second trafo the limiter bulb 25W/230V was lit and current consumption rised to over 100mA before I disconnected it quickly. When I reversed connection the current used on primary side on first transformer was exactly as you described : around 16,2mA or just a bit more then in idle state (I think I could balance it down to idle by adding additional capacitor).
Next I measured voltage on output and it was 115V exactly half of the input (or output of first trafo). Autotransformer theory fully confirmed.

With load of 1W LED light it looked like not consuming more then on idle, but what is 1W, anyway ? I changed load to 7W 230W incandescent bulb and unfortunately noticed rise of current in primary of first trafo from 16 to 25,7mA.     The main effect you stated is not here : the blink of limiter bulb and then fall of primary current back to idle state !!! I really wanted to see it !  Jack, where is the secret please ?

I measured 1.6V AC  across limiter bulb on idle state , which rised to 3V when load was powered. Between L and each side of limiter bulb (which is connected to N side like you described (L-trafo primary-bulb-N)) I measured fluctuating 238 to 243 V AC so the difference was not visible at first.

There must be something different in my setup , because I can't replicate the effect. Maybe those capacitors across primary of first trafo ? Or maybe the resistance of load bulb tested (7W,15W and 25W 230V) ?



One more note - if I shorted the wires where load is connected I've got almost 200mA and bight light of limiter bulb (of course I shut down it immediately).I think for any OU setup I should have no effect on source while testing this way..