Thane heins Rodin pulse motor

[Jimboot]

Thanks to woopy for the circuit from the Orbo experiments. I have replicated the thanes heins effect with my Rodin pulse motor. Now to run it off caps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASbXw3RkAHA

[crazycut06]

Nice! Can't wait to see it running on caps!
Keep it up! 

[MileHigh]

Farmhand is very interested in this issue.

It's simply jumping the gun to see the rotor speed up when you change the configuration of the motor and call it the "Thane Heins" effect.  Some others have commented in the past stating that this speed up under load is a very common occurrence with electric motors.

Careful and thoughtful input and output measurements would have to be made above and beyond the empirical observation that the rotor speeds up and the power consumption goes down under certain loading condition changes.  For example, one distinct possibility is that even though the power consumption goes down, more of the available power goes into making the rotor spin and less of the available power becomes waste heat - so the rotor speeds up even through the total input power consumption has decreased.

You have to remember that when you are powering your motor from your battery, that some of that input power becomes mechanical torque x angular velocity to make the rotor spin - the rotor power, and some of that power simply goes nowhere and becomes waste heat in the wires, and the core material, etc.  So typically when someone powers a pulse motor they have no real idea what the split is between waste heat power and rotor power.

Just look at the energizing pulse for the drive coil.   When the rotor is spinning more slowly, the pulse is longer.  A longer pulse implies that there may be a larger "dead band" where the energized drive coil is not pushing on the rotor.  A shorter pulse associated with a higher RPM rotor may have a much smaller "dead band" and be inherently more efficient.

If you knew how much mechanical power it took to keep the rotor spinning at your measured RPM, then you could compare that to the input power.  Then you would know that the waste heat power is the input power minus the rotor power.   The question is how do you measure the rotor power?

These are the kinds of issues that could be looked at.  There is no "Thane Heins" effect.  There is on the other hand the challenge to really understand what is happening, and then understanding that what is happening is all 100% normal - the motor is simply doing what it is supposed to be doing.

[Jimboot]

Farmhand is very interested in this issue.

It's simply jumping the gun to see the rotor speed up when you change the configuration of the motor and call it the "Thane Heins" effect.  Some others have commented in the past stating that this speed up under load is a very common occurrence with electric motors.

Careful and thoughtful input and output measurements would have to be made above and beyond the empirical observation that the rotor speeds up and the power consumption goes down under certain loading condition changes.  For example, one distinct possibility is that even though the power consumption goes down, more of the available power goes into making the rotor spin and less of the available power becomes waste heat - so the rotor speeds up even through the total input power consumption has decreased.

You have to remember that when you are powering your motor from your battery, that some of that input power becomes mechanical torque x angular velocity to make the rotor spin - the rotor power, and some of that power simply goes nowhere and becomes waste heat in the wires, and the core material, etc.  So typically when someone powers a pulse motor they have no real idea what the split is between waste heat power and rotor power.

Just look at the energizing pulse for the drive coil.   When the rotor is spinning more slowly, the pulse is longer.  A longer pulse implies that there may be a larger "dead band" where the energized drive coil is not pushing on the rotor.  A shorter pulse associated with a higher RPM rotor may have a much smaller "dead band" and be inherently more efficient.

If you knew how much mechanical power it took to keep the rotor spinning at your measured RPM, then you could compare that to the input power.  Then you would know that the waste heat power is the input power minus the rotor power.   The question is how do you measure the rotor power?

These are the kinds of issues that could be looked at.  There is no "Thane Heins" effect.  There is on the other hand the challenge to really understand what is happening, and then understanding that what is happening is all 100% normal - the motor is simply doing what it is supposed to be doing.

Thanks mate. I call it that as he is the only one I've seen demonstrate this. For me it is significant because ATM I have a motor in my shed that is running at 25k rpm that is charging its own run batter.very slowly charging but voltage is increasing. Not saying that there aren't a lot of variable to consider but I think it's something worthy of investigation.

[MileHigh]

Jimboot:

Let me just point out a few facts, not trying to give you a hard time:

If you measure the power consumption of your motor and compare that to the recharging power, just from looking at your clip it looks like the recharging power is only a small fraction of the power consumption of the motor.

It's not at all unusual to see the battery terminal voltage increase as the battery powers a load.  This has also been observed many times.

A closely related point is that often you see someone say "My battery only lost 0.12 volts after running my motor for 12 hours so 12 hours of running the motor only "consumed" 0.12 volts."  I think that you may have said something like that in one of your recent clips.

The whole concept of saying that a load "consumed" a fraction of a volt from the battery over time is really stretching it and is not scientific at all.  If you made an accurate measurement of the power consumption and the recharging power, then you would know the net power consumption of your motor.  The net power consumption of your motor times the run time will give you the energy consumption.  Then you can say something like, "I noticed that my battery voltage under load dropped 0.12 volts after it expended 2500 Joules of energy over 12 hours.  Do exactly the same test on another day with a different battery of the same type and size, or with the same battery with a different initial state of charge, and your observed voltage change may be different.  Just the ambient temperature in the room may affect the voltage drop.  By the same token if the ambient room temperature at the start of the test is different at the end of the test that also could affect the observed voltage drop.

I know that everybody does it, but the plain fact is that seeing the battery voltage slowly increase while the battery is powering a load does not mean that the battery is recharging.  You can see the battery expending energy and powering a load and you can often make a very accurate power consumption measurement with your multimeter.  Those facts override any observed increases in battery voltage and are clearly and unambiguously telling you that the battery is discharging.

MileHigh